Excuse me stewardess, but I can speak Greek........
"The rising star of Europe Alexis Tsipras, the radical left Greek leader, has arrived in Paris to warn EU countries that their turn would come if they failed to oppose the radical austerity that is driving Greece to the brink of "collective suicide"."
He says, "Give us money or we will kill ourselves."
"...he said he could feel a "wind of change" blowing across the continent that he hoped would lead to the "complete re-founding of Europe based on social cohesion and solidarity".
He says, "Europe should collectively agree to give us more money."
"We are here to explain to people in Europe that we have nothing against them. We are fighting the battle in Greece not just for the Greek people but for people in France, Germany and all European countries."
He says, "We want France and Germany to give us money."
"I am not here to blackmail, I am here to mobilise," he said."
He says, "I am here to mobilize. Then blackmail you into giving us money."
"Greece gave humanity democracy and today the Greek people will bring democracy back to Europe."
He says, "Greece created democracy. You should give us money."
Sorry, but that wasn't just Greek......it was Jive spoken in Greek..............
Excuse me stewardess, but I can speak Greek........
"The rising star of Europe Alexis Tsipras, the radical left Greek leader, has arrived in Paris to warn EU countries that their turn would come if they failed to oppose the radical austerity that is driving Greece to the brink of "collective suicide"."
He says, "Give us money or we will kill ourselves."
"...he said he could feel a "wind of change" blowing across the continent that he hoped would lead to the "complete re-founding of Europe based on social cohesion and solidarity".
He says, "Europe should collectively agree to give us more money."
"We are here to explain to people in Europe that we have nothing against them. We are fighting the battle in Greece not just for the Greek people but for people in France, Germany and all European countries."
He says, "We want France and Germany to give us money."
"I am not here to blackmail, I am here to mobilise," he said."
He says, "I am here to mobilize. Then blackmail you into giving us money."
"Greece gave humanity democracy and today the Greek people will bring democracy back to Europe."
He says, "Greece created democracy. You should give us money."
Sorry, but that wasn't just Greek......it was Jive spoken in Greek..............
Uhm................................no? Personally, I think Greece should tell the bank to take a flying fuck, print their own money again and cut where necessary by their own accord. Not by what some shadow government/bank says should be cut. Because regardless, you will have to cut some candy. Just a fact of fucking life and a real hard lesson that they should have never, ever joined the Eurozone.
pablo420 wrote:
^Yep. Now pay up
Uhm................................no? Personally, I think Greece should tell the bank to take a flying fuck, print their own money again and cut where necessary by their own accord. Not by what some shadow government/bank says should be cut. Because regardless, you will have to cut some candy. Just a fact of fucking life and a real hard lesson that they should have never, ever joined the Eurozone.
[quote user=ShanusMaximus] [quote user=pablo420]^Yep. Now pay up [/quote]
Uhm................................no? Personally, I think Greece should tell the bank to take a flying fuck, print their own money again and cut where necessary by their own accord. Not by what some shadow government/bank says should be cut. Because regardless, you will have to cut some candy. Just a fact of fucking life and a real hard lesson that they should have never, ever joined the Eurozone.
[/quote]
I agree with much of what you've said. The political classes signed the Greeks up to something they were not ready for. But, criteria were outlined for joining, and Greece was helped to fudge those criteria by Goldman Sachs... the questions remains, and this extends throughout the rest of Europe, how much did Germany know with regard to the 'fudging' of the criteria, and how much did they care given that including these nations increased the market for their goods and services. It seems to me that Germany has reaped the economic rewards with regard to exports to these 'fudged' countries, so maybe they should accept a portion of the accountability for the mess that has been created...
That said, I agree, they should tell the banks to take a flying fuck, print their own money and cut where necessary by their own accord, over whatever period they so choose... it seemed to work for the Icelandics.
ShanusMaximus wrote:
pablo420 wrote:
^Yep. Now pay up
Uhm................................no? Personally, I think Greece should tell the bank to take a flying fuck, print their own money again and cut where necessary by their own accord. Not by what some shadow government/bank says should be cut. Because regardless, you will have to cut some candy. Just a fact of fucking life and a real hard lesson that they should have never, ever joined the Eurozone.
I agree with much of what you've said. The political classes signed the Greeks up to something they were not ready for. But, criteria were outlined for joining, and Greece was helped to fudge those criteria by Goldman Sachs... the questions remains, and this extends throughout the rest of Europe, how much did Germany know with regard to the 'fudging' of the criteria, and how much did they care given that including these nations increased the market for their goods and services. It seems to me that Germany has reaped the economic rewards with regard to exports to these 'fudged' countries, so maybe they should accept a portion of the accountability for the mess that has been created...
That said, I agree, they should tell the banks to take a flying fuck, print their own money and cut where necessary by their own accord, over whatever period they so choose... it seemed to work for the Icelandics.
^ I think by the Greeks simply telling the bank to take a flying fuck would be payment enough from Germany, considering their money is tied up in these loans anyway. Actually, I would think it would be tough to have any country in the Eurozone expect any compensation for fraud, considering they were all part and parcel of it from day one. To me it's almost exactly like the housing market was in the U.S. The buyer knew he couldn't afford that big of a house, but the lender was still willing to give him the money because he "met the criteria". The lender wants his commission and the buyer wants the house............and they both sell themselves on a lie of epic proportions. Then the whole thing comes to Shitsville because everybody was thinking and acting the same. Irrationally.
^ I think by the Greeks simply telling the bank to take a flying fuck would be payment enough from Germany, considering their money is tied up in these loans anyway. Actually, I would think it would be tough to have any country in the Eurozone expect any compensation for fraud, considering they were all part and parcel of it from day one. To me it's almost exactly like the housing market was in the U.S. The buyer knew he couldn't afford that big of a house, but the lender was still willing to give him the money because he "met the criteria". The lender wants his commission and the buyer wants the house............and they both sell themselves on a lie of epic proportions. Then the whole thing comes to Shitsville because everybody was thinking and acting the same. Irrationally.
[quote user=otester]Every country needs to do what Iceland did.[/quote]
Isn't Iceland the opposite side of the Tea-Party / Alex Jones political spectrum? It's always the far-left economists that advocate the Iceland model, while those on the right prefer the UK austerity.
From what I understand, Iceland devalued their currency in half, and nationalized the major banks. They ran up aggressive inflation (around 20% per year) to reduce debt levels. Taxpayers had to take on the bad debt, in the hope to eventually allow the "good" debt to be handed back to the private banking sector.
I agree, the result led to a fast recovery, low unemployment, and eliminated the debt burden. However, I don't think it's politically viable in many Anglo-Saxon economies.
The justification for austerity is to appease creditors / bond markets. By cutting spending, lowering your standard of living, and increasing saving, the hope is that you can continue to borrow at low rates as you slowly pay down the debt accumulated during the financial crisis. The advantage is that you don't devalue the assets / returns of investors / creditors... disadvantage is that it probably results in a slow recovery.
Greece doesn't have much of a choice. Their debt is in Euros and they don't have a monetary authority to invoke an Icelandic maneuver.
otester wrote:
Every country needs to do what Iceland did.
Isn't Iceland the opposite side of the Tea-Party / Alex Jones political spectrum? It's always the far-left economists that advocate the Iceland model, while those on the right prefer the UK austerity.
From what I understand, Iceland devalued their currency in half, and nationalized the major banks. They ran up aggressive inflation (around 20% per year) to reduce debt levels. Taxpayers had to take on the bad debt, in the hope to eventually allow the "good" debt to be handed back to the private banking sector.
I agree, the result led to a fast recovery, low unemployment, and eliminated the debt burden. However, I don't think it's politically viable in many Anglo-Saxon economies.
The justification for austerity is to appease creditors / bond markets. By cutting spending, lowering your standard of living, and increasing saving, the hope is that you can continue to borrow at low rates as you slowly pay down the debt accumulated during the financial crisis. The advantage is that you don't devalue the assets / returns of investors / creditors... disadvantage is that it probably results in a slow recovery.
Greece doesn't have much of a choice. Their debt is in Euros and they don't have a monetary authority to invoke an Icelandic maneuver.
When Iceland decided to hold a referendum with regards to the bank bailouts, the overwhelming majority of the Icelanders voted against paying for the mistakes of the banks that overlent to developers and others. It did not seem logical for them to pay for the mistakes of the private banks that went over the board in taking risks to maximize their profits. Higher risks meant higher profits but the possibility that the investment might go bust was higher too. Why should the taxpayers pay for this aggressive risk taking? Why cover the negative odds? Why support an industry whose founding principle was survival of the fittest? At the time, they heard the same scare mongering threats some throw against Greece today. "You'll starve, you won't be able to import basic necessities, the markets will isolate you, your economy will collapse," etc.
And what happened in reality? Their economy, after an initial stage of recession, bounced back.
It is now recovering nicely, life moved on and people are rebuilding only a few years after the banks' collapse.
The same with Argentina. The same with Brazil. The same with Turkey. The same with Mexico. The same with Russia.
Who would think that Russia would be a super power today? I remember not too long ago their economy collapsed. How many didn't they gloat on their default? And where are the same ones now???
Internal devaluation makes life very hard on the average person. While the wages collapse, living expenses remain high. Imports become extremely high. Tax income drops and relative value of the debt increases. Tax income decreases and more borrowing is required to cover the deficit. As more austerity is needed and wages are suppressed more, imports/food/oil become more expensive and less affordable. Markets are spooked by the economic decline and stop lending.
At the end, there is not much difference than the actual default besides the fact that a currency devaluation brings immediate, across the board results while internal devaluation takes years to bring fruits. It is a slow, painful process that increases disparities and aggravates social tensions. Some Northern European countries managed to survive the long painful process of internal devaluation because social security and the welfare system cushioned the tensions and allowed for social harmony. The unemployed were thrown into the welfare rolls to prevent social unrest and disobedience. Welfare payments eased the burden on the poor and destitute. The same welfare system was reformed later when it's need passed.
No such luck in South Europe and especially Greece. The welfare system is operated by the church.
The quarter of a million destitute of Athens are fed in soup kitchens of the church. As places that take care of the disabled closed down, the church will have to pick up the slack there too. Single parent families have a hard time copying in the best of times. Some had to abandon their children during this crisis. Some immigrants reach desperation levels. For others, this desperation ended in suicides.
How longer can a society withstand this pressure? Five more years? Ten? Twenty?
Without a support system and with cuts getting deeper and deeper, Greece may be forced to go the Icelandic way.
Posted by MonaLisa4ever 13 May 2012 1:39AM
When Iceland decided to hold a referendum with regards to the bank bailouts, the overwhelming majority of the Icelanders voted against paying for the mistakes of the banks that overlent to developers and others. It did not seem logical for them to pay for the mistakes of the private banks that went over the board in taking risks to maximize their profits. Higher risks meant higher profits but the possibility that the investment might go bust was higher too. Why should the taxpayers pay for this aggressive risk taking? Why cover the negative odds? Why support an industry whose founding principle was survival of the fittest? At the time, they heard the same scare mongering threats some throw against Greece today. "You'll starve, you won't be able to import basic necessities, the markets will isolate you, your economy will collapse," etc.
And what happened in reality? Their economy, after an initial stage of recession, bounced back.
It is now recovering nicely, life moved on and people are rebuilding only a few years after the banks' collapse.
The same with Argentina. The same with Brazil. The same with Turkey. The same with Mexico. The same with Russia.
Who would think that Russia would be a super power today? I remember not too long ago their economy collapsed. How many didn't they gloat on their default? And where are the same ones now???
Internal devaluation makes life very hard on the average person. While the wages collapse, living expenses remain high. Imports become extremely high. Tax income drops and relative value of the debt increases. Tax income decreases and more borrowing is required to cover the deficit. As more austerity is needed and wages are suppressed more, imports/food/oil become more expensive and less affordable. Markets are spooked by the economic decline and stop lending.
At the end, there is not much difference than the actual default besides the fact that a currency devaluation brings immediate, across the board results while internal devaluation takes years to bring fruits. It is a slow, painful process that increases disparities and aggravates social tensions. Some Northern European countries managed to survive the long painful process of internal devaluation because social security and the welfare system cushioned the tensions and allowed for social harmony. The unemployed were thrown into the welfare rolls to prevent social unrest and disobedience. Welfare payments eased the burden on the poor and destitute. The same welfare system was reformed later when it's need passed.
No such luck in South Europe and especially Greece. The welfare system is operated by the church.
The quarter of a million destitute of Athens are fed in soup kitchens of the church. As places that take care of the disabled closed down, the church will have to pick up the slack there too. Single parent families have a hard time copying in the best of times. Some had to abandon their children during this crisis. Some immigrants reach desperation levels. For others, this desperation ended in suicides.
How longer can a society withstand this pressure? Five more years? Ten? Twenty?
Without a support system and with cuts getting deeper and deeper, Greece may be forced to go the Icelandic way.
Greek VI poll by VPRC SYRIZA 28.5 (+11.5 from May 6) ND 26 (+7) PASOK 12.5 (-0.5) IND. GREEKS 7 (-3.5) DEM. LEFT 7 (+1) NAZIS 5.5 (-1.5) KKE 5 (-3.5) Others 8.5 (-10.5) This is the company that came closer to the result of May 6. 3 more companies give SYRIZA ahead with a margin from 0.5 to 4, whereas 4 others give ND ahead with a margin from 1 to 5. For all intents and purposes, it is a neck to neck situation, with ND and SYRIZA growing at the expense of almost all other parties.
Greek VI poll by VPRC SYRIZA 28.5 (+11.5 from May 6) ND 26 (+7) PASOK 12.5 (-0.5) IND. GREEKS 7 (-3.5) DEM. LEFT 7 (+1) NAZIS 5.5 (-1.5) KKE 5 (-3.5) Others 8.5 (-10.5) This is the company that came closer to the result of May 6. 3 more companies give SYRIZA ahead with a margin from 0.5 to 4, whereas 4 others give ND ahead with a margin from 1 to 5. For all intents and purposes, it is a neck to neck situation, with ND and SYRIZA growing at the expense of almost all other parties.
11
| 160 views | www.guardian.co.uk
"The rising star of Europe Alexis Tsipras, the radical left Greek leader, has arrived in Paris to warn EU countries that their turn would come if they failed to oppose the radical austerity that is driving Greece to the brink of "collective suicide"."
He says, "Give us money or we will kill ourselves."
"...he said he could feel a "wind of change" blowing across the continent that he hoped would lead to the "complete re-founding of Europe based on social cohesion and solidarity".
He says, "Europe should collectively agree to give us more money."
"We are here to explain to people in Europe that we have nothing against them. We are fighting the battle in Greece not just for the Greek people but for people in France, Germany and all European countries."
He says, "We want France and Germany to give us money."
"I am not here to blackmail, I am here to mobilise," he said."
He says, "I am here to mobilize. Then blackmail you into giving us money."
"Greece gave humanity democracy and today the Greek people will bring democracy back to Europe."
He says, "Greece created democracy. You should give us money."
Sorry, but that wasn't just Greek......it was Jive spoken in Greek..............
"The rising star of Europe Alexis Tsipras, the radical left Greek leader, has arrived in Paris to warn EU countries that their turn would come if they failed to oppose the radical austerity that is driving Greece to the brink of "collective suicide"."
He says, "Give us money or we will kill ourselves."
"...he said he could feel a "wind of change" blowing across the continent that he hoped would lead to the "complete re-founding of Europe based on social cohesion and solidarity".
He says, "Europe should collectively agree to give us more money."
"We are here to explain to people in Europe that we have nothing against them. We are fighting the battle in Greece not just for the Greek people but for people in France, Germany and all European countries."
He says, "We want France and Germany to give us money."
"I am not here to blackmail, I am here to mobilise," he said."
He says, "I am here to mobilize. Then blackmail you into giving us money."
"Greece gave humanity democracy and today the Greek people will bring democracy back to Europe."
He says, "Greece created democracy. You should give us money."
Sorry, but that wasn't just Greek......it was Jive spoken in Greek..............
[/quote]
Uhm................................no? Personally, I think Greece should tell the bank to take a flying fuck, print their own money again and cut where necessary by their own accord. Not by what some shadow government/bank says should be cut. Because regardless, you will have to cut some candy. Just a fact of fucking life and a real hard lesson that they should have never, ever joined the Eurozone.
Uhm................................no? Personally, I think Greece should tell the bank to take a flying fuck, print their own money again and cut where necessary by their own accord. Not by what some shadow government/bank says should be cut. Because regardless, you will have to cut some candy. Just a fact of fucking life and a real hard lesson that they should have never, ever joined the Eurozone.
Uhm................................no? Personally, I think Greece should tell the bank to take a flying fuck, print their own money again and cut where necessary by their own accord. Not by what some shadow government/bank says should be cut. Because regardless, you will have to cut some candy. Just a fact of fucking life and a real hard lesson that they should have never, ever joined the Eurozone.
[/quote]
I agree with much of what you've said. The political classes signed the Greeks up to something they were not ready for. But, criteria were outlined for joining, and Greece was helped to fudge those criteria by Goldman Sachs... the questions remains, and this extends throughout the rest of Europe, how much did Germany know with regard to the 'fudging' of the criteria, and how much did they care given that including these nations increased the market for their goods and services. It seems to me that Germany has reaped the economic rewards with regard to exports to these 'fudged' countries, so maybe they should accept a portion of the accountability for the mess that has been created...
That said, I agree, they should tell the banks to take a flying fuck, print their own money and cut where necessary by their own accord, over whatever period they so choose... it seemed to work for the Icelandics.
Uhm................................no? Personally, I think Greece should tell the bank to take a flying fuck, print their own money again and cut where necessary by their own accord. Not by what some shadow government/bank says should be cut. Because regardless, you will have to cut some candy. Just a fact of fucking life and a real hard lesson that they should have never, ever joined the Eurozone.
I agree with much of what you've said. The political classes signed the Greeks up to something they were not ready for. But, criteria were outlined for joining, and Greece was helped to fudge those criteria by Goldman Sachs... the questions remains, and this extends throughout the rest of Europe, how much did Germany know with regard to the 'fudging' of the criteria, and how much did they care given that including these nations increased the market for their goods and services. It seems to me that Germany has reaped the economic rewards with regard to exports to these 'fudged' countries, so maybe they should accept a portion of the accountability for the mess that has been created...
That said, I agree, they should tell the banks to take a flying fuck, print their own money and cut where necessary by their own accord, over whatever period they so choose... it seemed to work for the Icelandics.
I think by the Greeks simply telling the bank to take a flying fuck would be payment enough from Germany, considering their money is tied up in these loans anyway. Actually, I would think it would be tough to have any country in the Eurozone expect any compensation for fraud, considering they were all part and parcel of it from day one. To me it's almost exactly like the housing market was in the U.S. The buyer knew he couldn't afford that big of a house, but the lender was still willing to give him the money because he "met the criteria". The lender wants his commission and the buyer wants the house............and they both sell themselves on a lie of epic proportions. Then the whole thing comes to Shitsville because everybody was thinking and acting the same. Irrationally.
I think by the Greeks simply telling the bank to take a flying fuck would be payment enough from Germany, considering their money is tied up in these loans anyway. Actually, I would think it would be tough to have any country in the Eurozone expect any compensation for fraud, considering they were all part and parcel of it from day one. To me it's almost exactly like the housing market was in the U.S. The buyer knew he couldn't afford that big of a house, but the lender was still willing to give him the money because he "met the criteria". The lender wants his commission and the buyer wants the house............and they both sell themselves on a lie of epic proportions. Then the whole thing comes to Shitsville because everybody was thinking and acting the same. Irrationally.
Isn't Iceland the opposite side of the Tea-Party / Alex Jones political spectrum? It's always the far-left economists that advocate the Iceland model, while those on the right prefer the UK austerity.
From what I understand, Iceland devalued their currency in half, and nationalized the major banks. They ran up aggressive inflation (around 20% per year) to reduce debt levels. Taxpayers had to take on the bad debt, in the hope to eventually allow the "good" debt to be handed back to the private banking sector.
I agree, the result led to a fast recovery, low unemployment, and eliminated the debt burden. However, I don't think it's politically viable in many Anglo-Saxon economies.
The justification for austerity is to appease creditors / bond markets. By cutting spending, lowering your standard of living, and increasing saving, the hope is that you can continue to borrow at low rates as you slowly pay down the debt accumulated during the financial crisis. The advantage is that you don't devalue the assets / returns of investors / creditors... disadvantage is that it probably results in a slow recovery.
Greece doesn't have much of a choice. Their debt is in Euros and they don't have a monetary authority to invoke an Icelandic maneuver.
Isn't Iceland the opposite side of the Tea-Party / Alex Jones political spectrum? It's always the far-left economists that advocate the Iceland model, while those on the right prefer the UK austerity.
From what I understand, Iceland devalued their currency in half, and nationalized the major banks. They ran up aggressive inflation (around 20% per year) to reduce debt levels. Taxpayers had to take on the bad debt, in the hope to eventually allow the "good" debt to be handed back to the private banking sector.
I agree, the result led to a fast recovery, low unemployment, and eliminated the debt burden. However, I don't think it's politically viable in many Anglo-Saxon economies.
The justification for austerity is to appease creditors / bond markets. By cutting spending, lowering your standard of living, and increasing saving, the hope is that you can continue to borrow at low rates as you slowly pay down the debt accumulated during the financial crisis. The advantage is that you don't devalue the assets / returns of investors / creditors... disadvantage is that it probably results in a slow recovery.
Greece doesn't have much of a choice. Their debt is in Euros and they don't have a monetary authority to invoke an Icelandic maneuver.
13 May 2012 1:39AM
When Iceland decided to hold a referendum with regards to the bank bailouts, the overwhelming majority of the Icelanders voted against paying for the mistakes of the banks that overlent to developers and others. It did not seem logical for them to pay for the mistakes of the private banks that went over the board in taking risks to maximize their profits. Higher risks meant higher profits but the possibility that the investment might go bust was higher too. Why should the taxpayers pay for this aggressive risk taking? Why cover the negative odds? Why support an industry whose founding principle was survival of the fittest? At the time, they heard the same scare mongering threats some throw against Greece today. "You'll starve, you won't be able to import basic necessities, the markets will isolate you, your economy will collapse," etc.
And what happened in reality? Their economy, after an initial stage of recession, bounced back.
It is now recovering nicely, life moved on and people are rebuilding only a few years after the banks' collapse.
The same with Argentina.
The same with Brazil.
The same with Turkey.
The same with Mexico.
The same with Russia.
Who would think that Russia would be a super power today? I remember not too long ago their economy collapsed. How many didn't they gloat on their default? And where are the same ones now???
Internal devaluation makes life very hard on the average person. While the wages collapse, living expenses remain high. Imports become extremely high. Tax income drops and relative value of the debt increases. Tax income decreases and more borrowing is required to cover the deficit. As more austerity is needed and wages are suppressed more, imports/food/oil become more expensive and less affordable. Markets are spooked by the economic decline and stop lending.
At the end, there is not much difference than the actual default besides the fact that a currency devaluation brings immediate, across the board results while internal devaluation takes years to bring fruits. It is a slow, painful process that increases disparities and aggravates social tensions. Some Northern European countries managed to survive the long painful process of internal devaluation because social security and the welfare system cushioned the tensions and allowed for social harmony. The unemployed were thrown into the welfare rolls to prevent social unrest and disobedience. Welfare payments eased the burden on the poor and destitute. The same welfare system was reformed later when it's need passed.
No such luck in South Europe and especially Greece. The welfare system is operated by the church.
The quarter of a million destitute of Athens are fed in soup kitchens of the church. As places that take care of the disabled closed down, the church will have to pick up the slack there too. Single parent families have a hard time copying in the best of times. Some had to abandon their children during this crisis. Some immigrants reach desperation levels. For others, this desperation ended in suicides.
How longer can a society withstand this pressure? Five more years? Ten? Twenty?
Without a support system and with cuts getting deeper and deeper, Greece may be forced to go the Icelandic way.
13 May 2012 1:39AM
When Iceland decided to hold a referendum with regards to the bank bailouts, the overwhelming majority of the Icelanders voted against paying for the mistakes of the banks that overlent to developers and others. It did not seem logical for them to pay for the mistakes of the private banks that went over the board in taking risks to maximize their profits. Higher risks meant higher profits but the possibility that the investment might go bust was higher too. Why should the taxpayers pay for this aggressive risk taking? Why cover the negative odds? Why support an industry whose founding principle was survival of the fittest? At the time, they heard the same scare mongering threats some throw against Greece today. "You'll starve, you won't be able to import basic necessities, the markets will isolate you, your economy will collapse," etc.
And what happened in reality? Their economy, after an initial stage of recession, bounced back.
It is now recovering nicely, life moved on and people are rebuilding only a few years after the banks' collapse.
The same with Argentina.
The same with Brazil.
The same with Turkey.
The same with Mexico.
The same with Russia.
Who would think that Russia would be a super power today? I remember not too long ago their economy collapsed. How many didn't they gloat on their default? And where are the same ones now???
Internal devaluation makes life very hard on the average person. While the wages collapse, living expenses remain high. Imports become extremely high. Tax income drops and relative value of the debt increases. Tax income decreases and more borrowing is required to cover the deficit. As more austerity is needed and wages are suppressed more, imports/food/oil become more expensive and less affordable. Markets are spooked by the economic decline and stop lending.
At the end, there is not much difference than the actual default besides the fact that a currency devaluation brings immediate, across the board results while internal devaluation takes years to bring fruits. It is a slow, painful process that increases disparities and aggravates social tensions. Some Northern European countries managed to survive the long painful process of internal devaluation because social security and the welfare system cushioned the tensions and allowed for social harmony. The unemployed were thrown into the welfare rolls to prevent social unrest and disobedience. Welfare payments eased the burden on the poor and destitute. The same welfare system was reformed later when it's need passed.
No such luck in South Europe and especially Greece. The welfare system is operated by the church.
The quarter of a million destitute of Athens are fed in soup kitchens of the church. As places that take care of the disabled closed down, the church will have to pick up the slack there too. Single parent families have a hard time copying in the best of times. Some had to abandon their children during this crisis. Some immigrants reach desperation levels. For others, this desperation ended in suicides.
How longer can a society withstand this pressure? Five more years? Ten? Twenty?
Without a support system and with cuts getting deeper and deeper, Greece may be forced to go the Icelandic way.
Greek VI poll by VPRC
SYRIZA 28.5 (+11.5 from May 6)
ND 26 (+7)
PASOK 12.5 (-0.5)
IND. GREEKS 7 (-3.5)
DEM. LEFT 7 (+1)
NAZIS 5.5 (-1.5)
KKE 5 (-3.5)
Others 8.5 (-10.5)
This is the company that came closer to the result of May 6. 3 more companies give SYRIZA ahead with a margin from 0.5 to 4, whereas 4 others give ND ahead with a margin from 1 to 5. For all intents and purposes, it is a neck to neck situation, with ND and SYRIZA growing at the expense of almost all other parties.
Greek VI poll by VPRC
SYRIZA 28.5 (+11.5 from May 6)
ND 26 (+7)
PASOK 12.5 (-0.5)
IND. GREEKS 7 (-3.5)
DEM. LEFT 7 (+1)
NAZIS 5.5 (-1.5)
KKE 5 (-3.5)
Others 8.5 (-10.5)
This is the company that came closer to the result of May 6. 3 more companies give SYRIZA ahead with a margin from 0.5 to 4, whereas 4 others give ND ahead with a margin from 1 to 5. For all intents and purposes, it is a neck to neck situation, with ND and SYRIZA growing at the expense of almost all other parties.