Bombs targeting Shia pilgrims in Baghdad and police in southern Iraq have killed at least 44 people during a major religious festival, police and hospital sources say.
damn right it's mission accomplished, iraq produces 2.6M barrels of oil a day. who cares if they are still killing each other, they always have, and always will. NATO got the important part right.
pablo420 wrote:
damn right it's mission accomplished, iraq produces 2.6M barrels of oil a day. who cares if they are still killing each other, they always have, and always will. NATO got the important part right.
[quote user=InSOmnIaC]The war part was over in days. This is nation building now. Big difference. [/quote]
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
InSOmnIaC wrote:
The war part was over in days. This is nation building now. Big difference.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
[quote user=pablo420] [quote user=InSOmnIaC]The war part was over in days. This is nation building now. Big difference.[/quote]
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots. [/quote]
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
pablo420 wrote:
InSOmnIaC wrote:
The war part was over in days. This is nation building now. Big difference.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
[quote user=pablo420] [quote user=InSOmnIaC]The war part was over in days. This is nation building now. Big difference.[/quote]
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots. [/quote]
yep.
pablo420 wrote:
InSOmnIaC wrote:
The war part was over in days. This is nation building now. Big difference.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
[quote user=InSOmnIaC] [quote user=pablo420]I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.[/quote]
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
[/quote]
or you can just buy whatever allegiances you want...enough cigs and small children will get you what ever you want.
InSOmnIaC wrote:
pablo420 wrote:
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
or you can just buy whatever allegiances you want...enough cigs and small children will get you what ever you want.
[quote user=InSOmnIaC] [quote user=pablo420]I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.[/quote]
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
[/quote]
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal
InSOmnIaC wrote:
pablo420 wrote:
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal
[quote user=pablo420] [quote user=InSOmnIaC]The war part was over in days. This is nation building now. Big difference.[/quote]
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots. [/quote]
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.
pablo420 wrote:
InSOmnIaC wrote:
The war part was over in days. This is nation building now. Big difference.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.
[quote user=darkzevahc] [quote user=pablo420]I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.[/quote]
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride. [/quote]
They also sacked the entire army and security forces, creating a mass of resentful, unemployed trained killers. Smart move.
darkzevahc wrote:
pablo420 wrote:
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.
They also sacked the entire army and security forces, creating a mass of resentful, unemployed trained killers. Smart move.
[quote user=pablo420] [quote user=InSOmnIaC]The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
[/quote]
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal [/quote]
Somalia FTW.
pablo420 wrote:
InSOmnIaC wrote:
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal
[quote user=pablo420] [quote user=darkzevahc]the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.[/quote]
They also sacked the entire army and security forces, creating a mass of resentful, unemployed trained killers. Smart move. [/quote]
AND LET THEM KEEP THEIR WEAPONS
pablo420 wrote:
darkzevahc wrote:
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.
They also sacked the entire army and security forces, creating a mass of resentful, unemployed trained killers. Smart move.
[quote user=LithuanianLabourer] [quote user=pablo420]I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal [/quote]
Somalia FTW. [/quote]
Hang on, I thought Somalia was libertarian?
LithuanianLabourer wrote:
pablo420 wrote:
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal
15
| 226 views | www.guardian.co.uk
[/quote]
damn right it's mission accomplished, iraq produces 2.6M barrels of oil a day. who cares if they are still killing each other, they always have, and always will. NATO got the important part right.
damn right it's mission accomplished, iraq produces 2.6M barrels of oil a day. who cares if they are still killing each other, they always have, and always will. NATO got the important part right.
[/quote]
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
[/quote]
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
[/quote]
yep.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
yep.
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
[/quote]
or you can just buy whatever allegiances you want...enough cigs and small children will get you what ever you want.
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
or you can just buy whatever allegiances you want...enough cigs and small children will get you what ever you want.
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
[/quote]
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal
True, but therein lies the problem. It's created a dichotomy among the population. The same problem with Afghanistan. While they never wanted the colonial boarders that were created, now that they have them, they do have a sense of national pride. The problem is, the allegiance to Iraq as a nation falls much lower in importance than it should for the country to operate properly. It's pretty much this for order of precedence:
Islam > Sunni or Shiite > Family > Tribe > geographical area > Iraq
The issue is, that when lines are drawn, their allegiances almost always lie elsewhere, unless it is inline with everything else. I've asked every Iraqi or Afghan I've had a chance to really talk to if they wanted the country to stay together or break into smaller nations and they always answer the same way. Stay together.
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
[/quote]
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.
I think the mistake was trying to build the nation in the first place. Iraq didn't come together as a country naturally, it was created arbritarily by idiots.
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.
[/quote]
They also sacked the entire army and security forces, creating a mass of resentful, unemployed trained killers. Smart move.
the biggest problem was banning all baathists and disbanding the army. youre talking about telling the only infrastructure for 20 plus years to fuck off and relying on exiles to run the country? stupid. its one thing if the iraqis had done this based on civil war, its another thing when the US tries to nation build then decides to tell all to fuck off based on pride.
They also sacked the entire army and security forces, creating a mass of resentful, unemployed trained killers. Smart move.
[/quote]
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal
[/quote]
Somalia FTW.
I'm not advocating a complete breakup; a collection of autonomus anarchist collectives would be my goal
Somalia FTW.
They also sacked the entire army and security forces, creating a mass of resentful, unemployed trained killers. Smart move.
[/quote]
AND LET THEM KEEP THEIR WEAPONS
They also sacked the entire army and security forces, creating a mass of resentful, unemployed trained killers. Smart move.
AND LET THEM KEEP THEIR WEAPONS
Somalia FTW.
[/quote]
Hang on, I thought Somalia was libertarian?
Somalia FTW.
Hang on, I thought Somalia was libertarian?