Definition: Faith - belief that is not based on proof. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
A man is a Christian. He cannot prove god exists, so he believes in Him via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
Then:
A man is an Atheist. He cannot prove god doesn't exist, so he believes in his non-existence via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
A lot of atheists do exactly what they rag on religious evangelicals about. Going around spreading the faith and trying to convert everybody. It seems in modern society, the cool thing for young people to do is rage on how "religion is bullshit" after watching Zeitgeist and going around to every religious person and saying they are retarded dumb sheep that are idiots.
I am not religious and I try keep my religious beliefs to myself. I believe there is a god. But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well), and at our deaths the final judgement happens.
In fact Jesus Christ was never an evangelical. Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil. Jesus simply talked, and would talk to whoever wanted to listen and whoever didn't could be on their way.
Now I do agree some of what the atheist dogma says in that I think organized religion is wrong. I think building a small church in your town and giving sermons there with people who also believe what you believe is ok. Having a mega-religious empire (like the catholic church) I think is wrong. No where in bible did anyone ever instruct anyone to build multi-milliondollar church complexes or that there needed to be gods representative to earth (the pope) or any of this nonsense.
Religion like many other things have been hijacked and used throughout history to justify terrible massacres and torture, but that does not mean the religions themselves are evil. Atheists piss me off because almost all of them seem to forget one thing: You have to let other people be free. And that means everyone can decide for themselves their religious stance. Many dumbasses I see posting comments online trying to be tough guys even call for banning religion (which by the way is part of marxism).
Religion like many other things have been hijacked and used throughout history to justify terrible massacres and torture, but that does not mean the religions themselves are evil.
Yeah you live in Canada; you don't see any real effect of religion in Canadian life. Go to any third world country and see for yourself what religion and belief in deities have done to the world.
This also pisses me off. Anti-God is NOT anti-american. Many founding fathers were not christian, some were atheists others deists and so on. America never was, never is going to be, and never was intended to be a Christian nation so those guys that put billboards up like this can go fuck themselves right up the ass. This billboard if anything else, is Anti-American because it is infringing on people's right to worship at the altar of THEIR CHOICE.
A man is an Atheist. He cannot prove god doesn't exist, so he believes in his non-existence via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
Ha ha, no, you homeschooled twat.
Things that have name but don't exist and can't be proven are made up. Prove that god/gods (any) is/are not made up.
No ? Score for atheism.
Else : On the other side of the universe in a galaxy far away there live 3 legged 4 armed two headed purple sentient aliens. I just made them up.
I don't believe they exist. You do, because you are twat.
In fact Jesus Christ was never an evangelical. Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil.
Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 1:16 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. 1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. 1:18 And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.
Matthew 9:35: Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom.
Etc etc. I'm not going to touch your "double negatives = religion" argument. Not accepting a fairy tale doesn't constitute a religion, if anything the absence of belief is the opposite of religion. Whatever definition you have of religion, lexicographers got there first.
Definition: Faith - belief that is not based on proof. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
A man is a Christian. He cannot prove god exists, so he believes in Him via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
Then:
A man is an Atheist. He cannot prove god doesn't exist, so he believes in his non-existence via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
A lot of atheists do exactly what they rag on religious evangelicals about. Going around spreading the faith and trying to convert everybody. It seems in modern society, the cool thing for young people to do is rage on how "religion is bullshit" after watching Zeitgeist and going around to every religious person and saying they are retarded dumb sheep that are idiots.
I am not religious and I try keep my religious beliefs to myself. I believe there is a god. But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well), and at our deaths the final judgement happens.
In fact Jesus Christ was never an evangelical. Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil. Jesus simply talked, and would talk to whoever wanted to listen and whoever didn't could be on their way.
Now I do agree some of what the atheist dogma says in that I think organized religion is wrong. I think building a small church in your town and giving sermons there with people who also believe what you believe is ok. Having a mega-religious empire (like the catholic church) I think is wrong. No where in bible did anyone ever instruct anyone to build multi-milliondollar church complexes or that there needed to be gods representative to earth (the pope) or any of this nonsense.
Religion like many other things have been hijacked and used throughout history to justify terrible massacres and torture, but that does not mean the religions themselves are evil. Atheists piss me off because almost all of them seem to forget one thing: You have to let other people be free. And that means everyone can decide for themselves their religious stance. Many dumbasses I see posting comments online trying to be tough guys even call for banning religion (which by the way is part of marxism).
No Wolffe. Atheism is the complete lack of belief in anything. Athiests don't have to "believe" when they see millions of pieces of proof that spit right in the face of all the abrahamic religions.
deokanon wrote:
wolffe wrote:
Religion like many other things have been hijacked and used throughout history to justify terrible massacres and torture, but that does not mean the religions themselves are evil.
Yeah you live in Canada; you don't see any real effect of religion in Canadian life. Go to any third world country and see for yourself what religion and belief in deities have done to the world.
Religion has completely fucked this world over. So many biased assumptions about people are based on religion. If you're a muslim, you're a terrorist. If you're a christian, you're a brainwashed fool. If you're a jew, you're a parasite.
@ Wolffe, if you read the bible, new or old testament, or even the qu'ran, both the biblical law and word of christ both say that anyone who does not accept christ/allah/trinity is a sinner and must be punished. Basically the bible says you must punish all those who do not agree with your religion. Now multiply that by however many seperate religions all call for violence against "infidels". Religion has turned this world into hating someone for what they've done, to hating someone for what they are. I truly believe that Religion created racism.
A man is an Atheist. He cannot prove god doesn't exist, so he believes in his non-existence via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
Ha ha, no, you homeschooled twat.
Things that have name but don't exist and can't be proven are made up. Prove that god/gods (any) is/are not made up.
No ? Score for atheism.
Else : On the other side of the universe in a galaxy far away there live 3 legged 4 armed two headed purple sentient aliens. I just made them up.
I don't believe they exist. You do, because you are twat.
Hey, we're all completely wrong, because a book says we are. Sure, everything that proves this god exists is inside a book rewritten 1000 years after the original book had all it's stories stolen from other cultures, but that's no reason to not believe... right?
Yeah, that attitude pisses me off too. I want to punch the first religious cocksucker that challenges my "Prove to me god exists" with the generic cop out "JUST LOOK OUT THE WINDOW!!! EYES ARE A PRODUCT OF CREATION!!!!!! DERPDERPDY-DERP"
But you could take any religion and twist the words and meanings to mean anything you want. Not the fault of religion, it's the fault of humans.
You are correct, it is the fault of humans. Religion is ultimately a human invention. But you have got to remember: It takes religion to turn good people into evil assholes.
proof wrote:
I truly believe that Religion created racism.
Maybe, I am not sure. But I do know it was used to seek support for slavery during a certain period.
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Since you cannot prove a supreme being DOES NOT EXIST, you therefore take your belief that a supreme being does not exist on FAITH. Forget what any religious text says. It's all irrelevant. Atheism & Religion cannot be proven with scientific evidence. They both require their believers to have faith.
But you could take any religion and twist the words and meanings to mean anything you want. Not the fault of religion, it's the fault of humans.
You are correct, it is the fault of humans. Religion is ultimately a human invention. But you have got to remember: It takes religion to turn good people into evil assholes.
You are right in that religion is a human invention. But you are wrong to assume Religion, an inanimate object, turns people evil. People turn people evil. People perform actions we perceive as evil. Does the motive for the evil action matter? In the end it is still an evil thing that the person consciously made the decision to perform.
Perhaps if we banned all religion it would reduce the amount of evil in the world? Heavens no. The same man would just find some other justification as all criminals do.
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Since you cannot prove a supreme being DOES NOT EXIST, you therefore take your belief that a supreme being does not exist on FAITH. Forget what any religious text says. It's all irrelevant. Atheism & Religion cannot be proven with scientific evidence. They both require their believers to have faith.
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Since you cannot prove a supreme being DOES NOT EXIST, you therefore take your belief that a supreme being does not exist on FAITH. Forget what any religious text says. It's all irrelevant. Atheism & Religion cannot be proven with scientific evidence. They both require their believers to have faith.
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
^ your point? We all know the definition of religion. What i'm trying to nail through your thick skulls is that no one on earth currently can prove the existence or the lack of existence of a supreme being, Aka God, Mohammed etc. The only way to answer such an ultimate question is for us to inevitably meet our end, and die. Only then will each of us know.
Debating it I guess could be fun, but ultimately neither side can ever really win the argument. The only thing you can do is persuade better than your opponent.
Yeah, except that many really do think religion is the real deal. I won't deny there are crooks out there but not everyone is tricking everyone to do their bidding. You could say religion is alive and kicking in their heads. Religion has a real effect in everyone's daily life.
wolffe wrote:
The same man would just find some other justification as all criminals do.
Yeah, except that scientists everywhere are saying violence and torture are diminishing in correlation with the advancement of secularism and decrease superstitious reasoning. Coincidence and a fluke correctional link? Wish religion influence could go extinct faster because people are still dying out there and in big numbers and hindering humanity's progress.
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
Now you are just being silly. I think you lost the argument. It doesn't matter how any religion defines it's version of a supreme being. The point again is, You can't prove that it doesn't exist. Neither can they prove it does exist. Therefore, atheists need to stop acting like they have 100% proof a supreme being doesn't exist and that atheists are "smarter and superior". Because thinking you are superior to religious people is the exact same as christian fundamentalists thinking their way is the only way and that they are "enlightened".
^ your point? We all know the definition of religion. What i'm trying to nail through your thick skulls is that no one on earth currently can prove the existence or the lack of existence of a supreme being, Aka God, Mohammed etc. The only way to answer such an ultimate question is for us to inevitably meet our end, and die. Only then will each of us know.
Debating it I guess could be fun, but ultimately neither side can ever really win the argument. The only thing you can do is persuade better than your opponent.
And that way of thinking basicly is the same as saying science cannot disprove that pigs can fly, because they might start flying tomorrow by utilizing some unknown means of flight.
If you want - believe that, but you are still retarded with your FAITH.
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
The point again is, You can't prove that it doesn't exist.
What doesn't exist exactly? What is it? If you can't define it or don't even know whether or not "it" exists, the only default position of any individual capable of thought is implicit atheism.
Edit: I'd have to shut up now. I've had this conversation over and over with Ed.
Well your certainly entitled to your own opinion. But I definitely do not think all religious people are retarded. Many of the greatest minds and thinkers of the past have been religious, and many were not. Religion is like the kind of car you drive. It may suit your needs and it might be practical but someone, somewhere who drives a different kind of car could go on for days on how you are so retarded and inferior because you drive that kind of car.
What I think atheists should do instead is acknowledge figuratively that everyone is entitled to drive the car of their own choice.
Well your certainly entitled to your own opinion. But I definitely do not think all religious people are retarded. Many of the greatest minds and thinkers of the past have been religious, and many were not. Religion is like the kind of car you drive. It may suit your needs and it might be practical but someone, somewhere who drives a different kind of car could go on for days on how you are so retarded and inferior because you drive that kind of car.
What I think atheists should do instead is acknowledge figuratively that everyone is entitled to drive the car of their own choice.
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
The point again is, You can't prove that it doesn't exist.
What doesn't exist exactly? What is it? If you can't define it or don't even know whether or not "it" exists, the only default position of any individual capable of thought is implicit atheism.
Edit: I'd have to shut up now. I've had this conversation over and over with Ed.
So you are saying that if you have no proof something doesn't exist, and you have no proof that it exists, any intelligent person has to take the default position of "It doesn't exist"? That sounds pretty flawed. Seems like the default position is "I don't know".
So you are saying that if you have no proof something doesn't exist, and you have no proof that it exists, any intelligent person has to take the default position of "It doesn't exist"? That sounds pretty flawed. Seems like the default position is "I don't know".
Without quoting your bible, without using flawed means of justifying a creator, without making excuses for your rewritten fairy tale book with most of it's stories stolen from cultures that worshipped completely different gods, please explain how you know God exists.
Fact is, you can't.
And don't come up with that bullshit "I can feel his presence".
Yeah, when I start hearing voices chirping in my head, then I'll convert to christianity and enter an insane asylum.
Don't you think for one moment that the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, etc all worshipped and believed in their gods as much, IF NOT MORE, than you believe in yours? What happened to their Gods? Yes, the exact same thing that will happen to your God, with the next huge religion to come in and replace it. Unfortunately that may never happen, as humanity is beginning to smarten the fuck up, well, some of it atleast.
There is plenty of proof religious gods don't exist.
Ancient Rome, Greece, Nords, Byzantine, Mesopotamia, Egypt, China, India, and Japan? Very good examples as their Gods never existed either, and pretty well ALL of these religions were older and far more tenured than Christianity ever was and most likely ever will be.
The only religion on this planet that I think makes a lick of sense is Buddhism. They don't really worship a Deity rather than worshipping an appointed person of power, the Buddha. All of their beliefs are based on Kharma and spiritual balance, not on appeasing some magical sky faggot.
So you are saying that if you have no proof something doesn't exist, and you have no proof that it exists, any intelligent person has to take the default position of "It doesn't exist"? That sounds pretty flawed. Seems like the default position is "I don't know".
So you are saying that if you have no proof something doesn't exist, and you have no proof that it exists, any intelligent person has to take the default position of "It doesn't exist"? That sounds pretty flawed. Seems like the default position is "I don't know".
Without quoting your bible, without using flawed means of justifying a creator, without making excuses for your rewritten fairy tale book with most of it's stories stolen from cultures that worshipped completely different gods, please explain how you know God exists.
Fact is, you can't.
And don't come up with that bullshit "I can feel his presence".
Yeah, when I start hearing voices chirping in my head, then I'll convert to christianity and enter an insane asylum.
Don't you think for one moment that the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, etc all worshipped and believed in their gods as much, IF NOT MORE, than you believe in yours? What happened to their Gods? Yes, the exact same thing that will happen to your God, with the next huge religion to come in and replace it. Unfortunately that may never happen, as humanity is beginning to smarten the fuck up, well, some of it atleast.
LithuanianLabourer wrote:
There is plenty of proof religious gods don't exist.
If you guys had been reading closely, you would see that I fully admit I have zero proof that a supreme being named God exists. That's why religious beliefs about the afterlife & "Supreme beings" or "Supreme laws" are taken on FAITH. I don't have proof of Gods existence & I never claimed to. I am not a bible thumper. The way I look at the bible is in a metaphorical sense. Noah's Ark propably didn't happen for one thing. I use the stories as metaphors for improving human beings. The ten commandments make sense to me and there isn't many people who would disagree with them.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
So in the end the inevitable truth is
"No one knows". Now of course this makes religious & atheist people angry as fuck, because no one likes to hear the truth.
So you are saying that if you have no proof something doesn't exist, and you have no proof that it exists, any intelligent person has to take the default position of "It doesn't exist"? That sounds pretty flawed. Seems like the default position is "I don't know".
Look up implicit atheism.
Ok I did. But that would be pretty hard, considering religion has been around since the dawn of mankind. In every society on earth, no matter how old, there was religious beliefs and rituals.
So you are saying that if you have no proof something doesn't exist, and you have no proof that it exists, any intelligent person has to take the default position of "It doesn't exist"? That sounds pretty flawed. Seems like the default position is "I don't know".
Without quoting your bible, without using flawed means of justifying a creator, without making excuses for your rewritten fairy tale book with most of it's stories stolen from cultures that worshipped completely different gods, please explain how you know God exists.
Fact is, you can't.
And don't come up with that bullshit "I can feel his presence".
Yeah, when I start hearing voices chirping in my head, then I'll convert to christianity and enter an insane asylum.
Don't you think for one moment that the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, etc all worshipped and believed in their gods as much, IF NOT MORE, than you believe in yours? What happened to their Gods? Yes, the exact same thing that will happen to your God, with the next huge religion to come in and replace it. Unfortunately that may never happen, as humanity is beginning to smarten the fuck up, well, some of it atleast.
LithuanianLabourer wrote:
There is plenty of proof religious gods don't exist.
If you guys had been reading closely, you would see that I fully admit I have zero proof that a supreme being named God exists. That's why religious beliefs about the afterlife & "Supreme beings" or "Supreme laws" are taken on FAITH. I don't have proof of Gods existence & I never claimed to. I am not a bible thumper. The way I look at the bible is in a metaphorical sense. Noah's Ark propably didn't happen for one thing. I use the stories as metaphors for improving human beings. The ten commandments make sense to me and there isn't many people who would disagree with them.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
So in the end the inevitable truth is
"No one knows". Now of course this makes religious & atheist people angry as fuck, because no one likes to hear the truth.
No, you don't know. For the rest of us intelligent products of society, we'll live a happy life knowing that we're going to be stuffed full of preservatives and partially rot away inside a coffin, and that is it. We don't worry about living our lives in canon to a book in the hopes that we're going to go some place that is beautiful and paradise.
If you're using the bible as a metaphor for good reasoning or how to treat others, you're very flawed in your logic. Your bible teaches you to hate anyone that doesn't follow your religion. It also commands you to kill all blasphemers, heretics, and to an extent, apostates.
The rest of us know that to treat others right, you treat others right. There is no rule book that lays out man's ability for empathy. We don't need religion to be decent people.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
Ehm... Evolution ?
It's still not proof. It's a theory btw and isn't the answer to "does a supreme being exist". It's merely observing changes in nature.
So when a change happens in nature to make it more suited for a certain task, that's just random growth and has absolutely nothing to do with adaptation through trial and error? How do you explain when all of a sudden one change is effected across an entire species? Is this a god pulling strings?
You just defined evolution, and you admitted these changes happen. You admitted evolution is working.
The argument will never end until a starting point for life is clearly defined. Whether god got tired of getting high and watching Gilligan's Island reruns then created the universe. Or an equally incredible one time cosmic event created something from nothing.
atheists do not believe anything on faith. generally an atheist is not someone who says "i know there is no god" they would more likely say "there is no evidence for god" meaning that an atheist has not seen any good, rational reason to believe in a god & therefore does not. they are not making any positive claims, that means they have no burden of proof. the theist is the one making the claim & therefore has to prove it.
simple example that you can understand:
i tell you that i know there are an uneven number of blades of grass in my garden. you say you don't believe i know this.
you would likely then say: how do you know? did you count them all? what proof have you got to back up this claim? do you have any evidence for this knowledge? etc...
1. i have made the claim, therefore i have to prove it, you do not have to prove that there's an even number 2. just because you say you don't believe me when i say there are an uneven number of blades of grass, that doesn't mean that you're saying there is an even number of blades of grass. i.e. just because i say i don't believe people when they say they know there's a god, that doesn't mean that i'm saying i know there isn't.
or if you still don't understand, look at it like this:
in a court of law, it's "innocent until proven guilty". the prosecution is making the claim that someone did something wrong & they have to prove that. if there is absolutely no evidence, the defence doesn't have to do anything.
in case you don't, here's probably an important part:
"An even more basic principle to remember here is that some burden of proof always lies with the person who is making a claim, not the person who is hearing the claim and who may not initially believe it."
not trying to annoy,insult or troll you, but i genuinely would like you to respond directly to this.
- I'm not debating evolution (don't know enough about it) - Not debating whether a god created the universe or it was just nature - Not saying religious is better - Not saying atheism is better
All I'm saying is no one has concrete proof a supreme being exists or not. I get the point about certain bible events being copied from older religions and older beliefs. I'm not here to debate the bible. I don't follow the bible that much and haven't read it all.
What I am trying to combat is the stereotypical atheist thinking he is superior to religious people because he "doesn't believe in fairytales" and how they have to flaunt it in the face of others.
What I am trying to combat is the stereotypical atheist thinking he is superior to religious people because he "doesn't believe in fairytales" and how they have to flaunt it in the face of others. [/quote]
- I'm not debating evolution (don't know enough about it) - Not debating whether a god created the universe or it was just nature - Not saying religious is better - Not saying atheism is better
All I'm saying is no one has concrete proof a supreme being exists or not. I get the point about certain bible events being copied from older religions and older beliefs. I'm not here to debate the bible. I don't follow the bible that much and haven't read it all.
What I am trying to combat is the stereotypical atheist thinking he is superior to religious people because he "doesn't believe in fairytales" and how they have to flaunt it in the face of others.
the problem is too many allegedly "religious" folk pass off there personal opinions as religious facts and commit gross logical fallacies in the process. What I mean by facts is stuff you can corroborate with actual religious experts, like the pope or stuff that is actual canon in the bible/koran/etc. So when people literally make stuff up and pretend that its "religious" when its actually just a personal belief its hard not to feel superior when they are talking out of there ass. Too many christians act like they know what they are talking about when they haven't even read the bible.
- I'm not debating evolution (don't know enough about it) - Not debating whether a god created the universe or it was just nature - Not saying religious is better - Not saying atheism is better
All I'm saying is no one has concrete proof a supreme being exists or not. I get the point about certain bible events being copied from older religions and older beliefs. I'm not here to debate the bible. I don't follow the bible that much and haven't read it all.
What I am trying to combat is the stereotypical atheist thinking he is superior to religious people because he "doesn't believe in fairytales" and how they have to flaunt it in the face of others.
until you understand evolution, you cannot unequivocably say that only a god created man. Your argument is based on ignorance by this logic.
^ I never once stated god created man, or that I believe such. You are already locked into this mode of "Wolffe = Religious Person. Attack mode engaged". Why are you trying to attack me? I'm just merely saying no one can prove god exists or not.
But you could take any religion and twist the words and meanings to mean anything you want. Not the fault of religion, it's the fault of humans.
You are correct, it is the fault of humans. Religion is ultimately a human invention. But you have got to remember: It takes religion to turn good people into evil assholes.
You are right in that religion is a human invention. But you are wrong to assume Religion, an inanimate object, turns people evil. People turn people evil. People perform actions we perceive as evil. Does the motive for the evil action matter? In the end it is still an evil thing that the person consciously made the decision to perform.
Perhaps if we banned all religion it would reduce the amount of evil in the world? Heavens no. The same man would just find some other justification as all criminals do.
meh..i just consider myself an agnostic. don't believe in any god, but i can't prove it otherwise and wouldn't care to...
I am not religious and I try keep my religious beliefs to myself. I believe there is a god. But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well), and at our deaths the final judgement happens.
I am not religious and I try keep my religious beliefs to myself. I believe there is a god. But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well), and at our deaths the final judgement happens.
^ I never once stated god created man, or that I believe such. You are already locked into this mode of "Wolffe = Religious Person. Attack mode engaged". Why are you trying to attack me? I'm just merely saying no one can prove god exists or not.
Hey, you're the one said that you believe in God. Are you saying god exists but he didn't do fuck all and literally sat around trolling the human race for thousands of years? What is a purpose for a God if it literally does fuck all? If you believe in God, you believe he created man. You can't have one but not the other.
Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil.
Wolffe wrote:
Forget what any religious text says. It's all irrelevant.
Wolffe wrote:
The ten commandments make sense to me and there isn't many people who would disagree with them.
Wolffe wrote:
But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well),
Wolffe wrote:
^ I never once stated god created man, or that I believe such.
If it's possible for one person to contradict themselves so much in one thread, maybe there could be a god?!
This is my favourite line, set me up for the day:
Wolffe wrote:
Noah's Ark propably didn't happen for one thing.
Lorf.
These religious apologists always make me laugh. They take a softer line than wingnuts, thinking that if they're 'reasonable' they'll finally get through to us. What they don't realise is that you can't be 'a bit' religious. Sure, you can say you're a bit religious, but you're not. Religion isn't an a la carte. Organised religion has the texts, the rituals, etc. This is where you learn about your flavour of god, you can't just make shit up to suit your lifestyle and still call yourself christian. "'I believe in a christian god, but I don't believe all those silly rules in the book of the word of god" type of thinking is actually worse than being a proper believer.
As for the 10 golden rules, the order they come in is as bad as the content. It's funny that you extol their perfection, yet you hate your mother. I suppose you're consistently contradictory, so at least there's that.
Anyway, this thread is about how awesoem I am, not about god. Stop hijacking.
Wolffe, atheism is just a pointless brand. To not believe is a default position, what you are saying is essentially the same as calling bald a haircolor.
Wolffe, atheism is just a pointless brand. To not believe is a default position, what you are saying is essentially the same as calling bald a haircolor.
Wolffe, atheism is just a pointless brand. To not believe is a default position, what you are saying is essentially the same as calling bald a haircolor.
very easy to decide who is the winner : Deo is a retard that refuses to take truth into his arguments. Christian cunt, fuck offa TAN.
It's so easy : there are two types of people on TAN. One type at least tries to be open to new facts and interpretations of the same. Then there is the Wolffe/Deo/Ed/Cyril/Otester type that(they're nice guys this is nothing personal) just ignores whatever facts they wish to ignore. Herp derp said evolution is bullshit, so the "Wolffe/Deo/Ed/Cyril/Otester" type assumes this without question. They then use this obviously not-based-on-facts information to try and question any sort of scientific argument the other type of TANer makes. nuff said.
@scobie
One can't be "a bit" religious? This makes me think you don't even know what religion is... and TBH this thread isn't about how awesome you are, because you're an utter retard. You just won the discussion with a fellow utter retard that happens to be highly religious too, making your discussion easy as fuck.
very easy to decide who is the winner : Deo is a retard that refuses to take truth into his arguments. Christian cunt, fuck offa TAN.
It's so easy : there are two types of people on TAN. One type at least tries to be open to new facts and interpretations of the same. Then there is the Wolffe/Deo/Ed/Cyril/Otester type that(they're nice guys this is nothing personal) just ignores whatever facts they wish to ignore. Herp derp said evolution is bullshit, so the "Wolffe/Deo/Ed/Cyril/Otester" type assumes this without question. They then use this obviously not-based-on-facts information to try and question any sort of scientific argument the other type of TANer makes. nuff said.
@scobie
One can't be "a bit" religious? This makes me think you don't even know what religion is... and TBH this thread isn't about how awesome you are, because you're an utter retard. You just won the discussion with a fellow utter retard that happens to be highly religious too, making your discussion easy as fuck.
In fact Jesus Christ was never an evangelical. Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil.
Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. 1:16 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers. 1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men. 1:18 And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.
Matthew 9:35: Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom.
Etc etc. I'm not going to touch your "double negatives = religion" argument. Not accepting a fairy tale doesn't constitute a religion, if anything the absence of belief is the opposite of religion. Whatever definition you have of religion, lexicographers got there first.
^
Scob is incorrect - Jesus was the FULFILLMENT of the Jewish religion - but they rejected Him.
Just skimming this thread - Wolffe is correct: Impossible to prove a God, impossible to disprove - - FACT. "Religion" has NOTHING to do with the argument...you people have to quit being stupid. Sorry.
Just skimming this thread - Wolffe is correct: Impossible to prove a God, impossible to disprove - - FACT. "Religion" has NOTHING to do with the argument...you people have to quit being stupid. Sorry.
Wolffe, atheism is just a pointless brand. To not believe is a default position, what you are saying is essentially the same as calling bald a haircolor.
Just skimming this thread - Wolffe is correct: Impossible to prove a God, impossible to disprove - - FACT. "Religion" has NOTHING to do with the argument...you people have to quit being stupid. Sorry.
So many things I said were taken out of context. All I was trying to say the whole time is no one can prove the existence of god or not. The ultra enlightened atheists in this thread just cannot accept it and continue speaking like they know the absolute proof god doesn't exist, when they don't. They attack anyone who is religious like they are flawed people that need curing.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
So many things I said were taken out of context. All I was trying to say the whole time is no one can prove the existence of god or not. The ultra enlightened atheists in this thread just cannot accept it and continue speaking like they know the absolute proof god doesn't exist, when they don't. They attack anyone who is religious like they are flawed people that need curing.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
wolffe, you're projecting now, and reading stuff people never wrote. throwing around atheist stereotypes doesn't help either. i stand by my nihilist philosophy: i don't care if there is a god or not. it won't affect me either way.
So many things I said were taken out of context. All I was trying to say the whole time is no one can prove the existence of god or not. The ultra enlightened atheists in this thread just cannot accept it and continue speaking like they know the absolute proof god doesn't exist, when they don't. They attack anyone who is religious like they are flawed people that need curing.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
One can't be "a bit" religious? This makes me think you don't even know what religion is...
Ohh, touched a nerve, have I?
Please, I know I've already quoted the definition of religion, but do tell me what religion is. Tell me how picking and choosing the bits you like from a religion and ignoring the rest isn't just making shit up? If you think you're a christian but you ignore the word of the lord, you're not a christian. You're too weak to live within the established rules so you change it, as if you're a god. Of course, there is precedence. There was a certain jew zombie that didn't like everything in his religion either, so he set up his own.
So many things I said were taken out of context. All I was trying to say the whole time is no one can prove the existence of god or not. The ultra enlightened atheists in this thread just cannot accept it and continue speaking like they know the absolute proof god doesn't exist, when they don't. They attack anyone who is religious like they are flawed people that need curing.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
so? That's nice. Those people are annoying.
No, they are infringing on people's freedom by telling them based on their judgment what to believe in or risk spending life in some fairtytale torture chamber. Last I checked, no one has any right to judge others based on their beliefs. Yet, Christians and other fairytale-believing cookoofucks make use of this action every day. Not to mention, in your favorite country that you don't live in, some no-need-to-mention conservative republics are trying to make state and church, or atleast school and church one. This is infringing on the freedoms of anyone who is not a christian, so please don't tell me Christians don't infringe on peoples freedoms.
Hmmmmm, in this country, people have a "right" to believe as they wish - so I think it is YOU who are infringing on people's freedoms by insisting that they believe as you do...
I certainly do NOT give a rat's ass, that atheists do not believe in a God - I just do not understand why if they do not believe in a God - they get sooooo fucking upset that others DO. Therefore, atheists seem more than a bit mentally unbalanced. Remember: Athiests were the biggest mass murderers the world has ever seen, examples: Stalin, Mao, Hitler...
Hmmmmm, in this country, people have a "right" to believe as they wish - so I think it is YOU who are infringing on people's freedoms by insisting that they believe as you do...
I certainly do NOT give a rat's ass, that atheists do not believe in a God - I just do not understand why if they do not believe in a God - they get sooooo fucking upset that others DO. Therefore, atheists seem more than a bit mentally unbalanced. Remember: Athiests were the biggest mass murderers the world has ever seen, examples: Stalin, Mao, Hitler...
Crusades? Millions of people killed in the name of a religion simply because others who believed in other just as valid deities were slaughtered.
Your beloved republicans are trying to bring the church into schools. Do you think that is right to force beliefs on people who have a right to believe in whatever they want?
Hmmmmm, in this country, people have a "right" to believe as they wish - so I think it is YOU who are infringing on people's freedoms by insisting that they believe as you do...
I certainly do NOT give a rat's ass, that atheists do not believe in a God - I just do not understand why if they do not believe in a God - they get sooooo fucking upset that others DO.
That's how i feel about the subject. Then again, TAN is the only place that is obsessed with the whole atheist talking points. Believe what you want.
Hmmmmm, in this country, people have a "right" to believe as they wish - so I think it is YOU who are infringing on people's freedoms by insisting that they believe as you do...
I certainly do NOT give a rat's ass, that atheists do not believe in a God - I just do not understand why if they do not believe in a God - they get sooooo fucking upset that others DO.
That's how i feel about the subject. Then again, TAN is the only place that is obsessed with the whole atheist talking points. Believe what you want.
Totally agree, you people go completely ape shit on Christians.
proofinlife wrote:
Wolffe wrote:
So many things I said were taken out of context. All I was trying to say the whole time is no one can prove the existence of god or not. The ultra enlightened atheists in this thread just cannot accept it and continue speaking like they know the absolute proof god doesn't exist, when they don't. They attack anyone who is religious like they are flawed people that need curing.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
The only people I see being completely judgmental and unreasonable are the atheists in this thread. I don't give a fuck what you believe or if your going to hell. I have never told some one what to believe or that their wrong. But you can come along and continually piss all over others faith. You can go fuck yourself and "Good Day To You!!!"
Wolfe was being reasonable, and is entitled to his opinion, now leave him the hell alone.
the conclusion is in, proofinlife is just too retarded to understand what we are trying to say. Seems he and his ilk are determined to destroy religion in all forms. People like him are dangerous to freedom.
the conclusion is in, proofinlife is just too retarded to understand what we are trying to say. Seems he and his ilk are determined to destroy religion in all forms. People like him are dangerous to freedom.
don't you mean Freedumb? You know fuck all what freedom actually means, you parasite. You think freedumb is guns and jesus. You're enslaved to your book and the dollar (not to mention getting it for free and hating socialist systems), I'm only enslaved to the dollar, therefore I am more a free man than you'll ever be
wolffe, you're projecting now, and reading stuff people never wrote. throwing around atheist stereotypes doesn't help either. i stand by my nihilist philosophy: i don't care if there is a god or not. it won't affect me either way.
wolffe, you're projecting now, and reading stuff people never wrote. throwing around atheist stereotypes doesn't help either. i stand by my nihilist philosophy: i don't care if there is a god or not. it won't affect me either way.
So many things I said were taken out of context. All I was trying to say the whole time is no one can prove the existence of god or not. The ultra enlightened atheists in this thread just cannot accept it and continue speaking like they know the absolute proof god doesn't exist, when they don't. They attack anyone who is religious like they are flawed people that need curing.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
^
Ah, Proof, but if the Prophet tells you to throw acid in the face of a school girl - - you praise Allah and DO IT... Yeah, make fun of Jesus - the actual prophet of peace... Hahahahaha you fucking idiot.
wolffe, you're projecting now, and reading stuff people never wrote. throwing around atheist stereotypes doesn't help either. i stand by my nihilist philosophy: i don't care if there is a god or not. it won't affect me either way.
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| 224 views | 25 votes
In my opinion Scobie clobbered Deo and then ate his peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
Ask Nova.
LOL
We should put that to the vote first...
We should put that to the vote first...
Form a committee to carry out a feasibility study first
Edit: I mean who da fuck thinks there's a cosmic reason for having nipples?
Definition:
Faith - belief that is not based on proof. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
A man is a Christian. He cannot prove god exists, so he believes in Him via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
Then:
A man is an Atheist. He cannot prove god doesn't exist, so he believes in his non-existence via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
A lot of atheists do exactly what they rag on religious evangelicals about. Going around spreading the faith and trying to convert everybody.
It seems in modern society, the cool thing for young people to do is rage on how "religion is bullshit" after watching Zeitgeist and going around to every religious person and saying they are retarded dumb sheep that are idiots.
I am not religious and I try keep my religious beliefs to myself. I believe there is a god. But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well), and at our deaths the final judgement happens.
In fact Jesus Christ was never an evangelical. Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil. Jesus simply talked, and would talk to whoever wanted to listen and whoever didn't could be on their way.
Now I do agree some of what the atheist dogma says in that I think organized religion is wrong. I think building a small church in your town and giving sermons there with people who also believe what you believe is ok. Having a mega-religious empire (like the catholic church) I think is wrong. No where in bible did anyone ever instruct anyone to build multi-milliondollar church complexes or that there needed to be gods representative to earth (the pope) or any of this nonsense.
Religion like many other things have been hijacked and used throughout history to justify terrible massacres and torture, but that does not mean the religions themselves are evil.
Atheists piss me off because almost all of them seem to forget one thing: You have to let other people be free. And that means everyone can decide for themselves their religious stance. Many dumbasses I see posting comments online trying to be tough guys even call for banning religion (which by the way is part of marxism).
Yeah you live in Canada; you don't see any real effect of religion in Canadian life. Go to any third world country and see for yourself what religion and belief in deities have done to the world.
This also pisses me off. Anti-God is NOT anti-american. Many founding fathers were not christian, some were atheists others deists and so on. America never was, never is going to be, and never was intended to be a Christian nation so those guys that put billboards up like this can go fuck themselves right up the ass. This billboard if anything else, is Anti-American because it is infringing on people's right to worship at the altar of THEIR CHOICE.
Ha ha, no, you homeschooled twat.
Things that have name but don't exist and can't be proven are made up. Prove that god/gods (any) is/are not made up.
No ? Score for atheism.
Else :
On the other side of the universe in a galaxy far away there live 3 legged 4 armed two headed purple sentient aliens. I just made them up.
I don't believe they exist. You do, because you are twat.
In fact Jesus Christ was never an evangelical. Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil.
Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
1:16 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.
1:18 And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.
Matthew 9:35: Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom.
Etc etc. I'm not going to touch your "double negatives = religion" argument. Not accepting a fairy tale doesn't constitute a religion, if anything the absence of belief is the opposite of religion. Whatever definition you have of religion, lexicographers got there first.
Definition:
Faith - belief that is not based on proof. strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence
A man is a Christian. He cannot prove god exists, so he believes in Him via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
Then:
A man is an Atheist. He cannot prove god doesn't exist, so he believes in his non-existence via faith. He goes with what he honestly believes is the truth, but cannot prove it. Again, using faith.
A lot of atheists do exactly what they rag on religious evangelicals about. Going around spreading the faith and trying to convert everybody.
It seems in modern society, the cool thing for young people to do is rage on how "religion is bullshit" after watching Zeitgeist and going around to every religious person and saying they are retarded dumb sheep that are idiots.
I am not religious and I try keep my religious beliefs to myself. I believe there is a god. But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well), and at our deaths the final judgement happens.
In fact Jesus Christ was never an evangelical. Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil. Jesus simply talked, and would talk to whoever wanted to listen and whoever didn't could be on their way.
Now I do agree some of what the atheist dogma says in that I think organized religion is wrong. I think building a small church in your town and giving sermons there with people who also believe what you believe is ok. Having a mega-religious empire (like the catholic church) I think is wrong. No where in bible did anyone ever instruct anyone to build multi-milliondollar church complexes or that there needed to be gods representative to earth (the pope) or any of this nonsense.
Religion like many other things have been hijacked and used throughout history to justify terrible massacres and torture, but that does not mean the religions themselves are evil.
Atheists piss me off because almost all of them seem to forget one thing: You have to let other people be free. And that means everyone can decide for themselves their religious stance. Many dumbasses I see posting comments online trying to be tough guys even call for banning religion (which by the way is part of marxism).
No Wolffe. Atheism is the complete lack of belief in anything. Athiests don't have to "believe" when they see millions of pieces of proof that spit right in the face of all the abrahamic religions.
Yeah you live in Canada; you don't see any real effect of religion in Canadian life. Go to any third world country and see for yourself what religion and belief in deities have done to the world.
Religion has completely fucked this world over. So many biased assumptions about people are based on religion. If you're a muslim, you're a terrorist. If you're a christian, you're a brainwashed fool. If you're a jew, you're a parasite.
@ Wolffe, if you read the bible, new or old testament, or even the qu'ran, both the biblical law and word of christ both say that anyone who does not accept christ/allah/trinity is a sinner and must be punished. Basically the bible says you must punish all those who do not agree with your religion. Now multiply that by however many seperate religions all call for violence against "infidels". Religion has turned this world into hating someone for what they've done, to hating someone for what they are. I truly believe that Religion created racism.
Ha ha, no, you homeschooled twat.
Things that have name but don't exist and can't be proven are made up. Prove that god/gods (any) is/are not made up.
No ? Score for atheism.
Else :
On the other side of the universe in a galaxy far away there live 3 legged 4 armed two headed purple sentient aliens. I just made them up.
I don't believe they exist. You do, because you are twat.
Hey, we're all completely wrong, because a book says we are. Sure, everything that proves this god exists is inside a book rewritten 1000 years after the original book had all it's stories stolen from other cultures, but that's no reason to not believe... right?
Yeah, that attitude pisses me off too. I want to punch the first religious cocksucker that challenges my "Prove to me god exists" with the generic cop out "JUST LOOK OUT THE WINDOW!!! EYES ARE A PRODUCT OF CREATION!!!!!! DERPDERPDY-DERP"
You are correct, it is the fault of humans. Religion is ultimately a human invention. But you have got to remember: It takes religion to turn good people into evil assholes.
Maybe, I am not sure. But I do know it was used to seek support for slavery during a certain period.
a·the·ist
noun
Since you cannot prove a supreme being DOES NOT EXIST, you therefore take your belief that a supreme being does not exist on FAITH. Forget what any religious text says. It's all irrelevant. Atheism & Religion cannot be proven with scientific evidence. They both require their believers to have faith.
You are correct, it is the fault of humans. Religion is ultimately a human invention. But you have got to remember: It takes religion to turn good people into evil assholes.
You are right in that religion is a human invention. But you are wrong to assume Religion, an inanimate object, turns people evil. People turn people evil. People perform actions we perceive as evil. Does the motive for the evil action matter? In the end it is still an evil thing that the person consciously made the decision to perform.
Perhaps if we banned all religion it would reduce the amount of evil in the world? Heavens no. The same man would just find some other justification as all criminals do.
a·the·ist
noun
Since you cannot prove a supreme being DOES NOT EXIST, you therefore take your belief that a supreme being does not exist on FAITH. Forget what any religious text says. It's all irrelevant. Atheism & Religion cannot be proven with scientific evidence. They both require their believers to have faith.
a·the·ist
noun
Since you cannot prove a supreme being DOES NOT EXIST, you therefore take your belief that a supreme being does not exist on FAITH. Forget what any religious text says. It's all irrelevant. Atheism & Religion cannot be proven with scientific evidence. They both require their believers to have faith.
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
Debating it I guess could be fun, but ultimately neither side can ever really win the argument. The only thing you can do is persuade better than your opponent.
Yeah, except that many really do think religion is the real deal. I won't deny there are crooks out there but not everyone is tricking everyone to do their bidding. You could say religion is alive and kicking in their heads. Religion has a real effect in everyone's daily life.
Yeah, except that scientists everywhere are saying violence and torture are diminishing in correlation with the advancement of secularism and decrease superstitious reasoning. Coincidence and a fluke correctional link? Wish religion influence could go extinct faster because people are still dying out there and in big numbers and hindering humanity's progress.
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
Now you are just being silly. I think you lost the argument. It doesn't matter how any religion defines it's version of a supreme being. The point again is, You can't prove that it doesn't exist. Neither can they prove it does exist. Therefore, atheists need to stop acting like they have 100% proof a supreme being doesn't exist and that atheists are "smarter and superior". Because thinking you are superior to religious people is the exact same as christian fundamentalists thinking their way is the only way and that they are "enlightened".
Debating it I guess could be fun, but ultimately neither side can ever really win the argument. The only thing you can do is persuade better than your opponent.
And that way of thinking basicly is the same as saying science cannot disprove that pigs can fly, because they might start flying tomorrow by utilizing some unknown means of flight.
If you want - believe that, but you are still retarded with your FAITH.
Get it ?
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
The point again is, You can't prove that it doesn't exist.
What doesn't exist exactly? What is it? If you can't define it or don't even know whether or not "it" exists, the only default position of any individual capable of thought is implicit atheism.
Edit: I'd have to shut up now. I've had this conversation over and over with Ed.
What I think atheists should do instead is acknowledge figuratively that everyone is entitled to drive the car of their own choice.
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
The point again is, You can't prove that it doesn't exist.
What doesn't exist exactly? What is it? If you can't define it, the only default position of any individual capable of thought is implicit atheism.
Ssssh, you're interrupting Wolffe's daily allocated Bible Thumpin' Hour.
What I think atheists should do instead is acknowledge figuratively that everyone is entitled to drive the car of their own choice.
No, it's a mass fraud.
No, because religions define supreme beings on the level of stupidy of people in ancient times and their definitions invoke laughter.
The point again is, You can't prove that it doesn't exist.
What doesn't exist exactly? What is it? If you can't define it or don't even know whether or not "it" exists, the only default position of any individual capable of thought is implicit atheism.
Edit: I'd have to shut up now. I've had this conversation over and over with Ed.
Sssssh, you're interrupting my 6:00 fap session.
FUUUUUUUUUUU
I'll also modify my original statement.
you're interrupting Wolffe's daily allocated Bible humpin' hour.
Without quoting your bible, without using flawed means of justifying a creator, without making excuses for your rewritten fairy tale book with most of it's stories stolen from cultures that worshipped completely different gods, please explain how you know God exists.
Fact is, you can't.
And don't come up with that bullshit "I can feel his presence".
Yeah, when I start hearing voices chirping in my head, then I'll convert to christianity and enter an insane asylum.
Don't you think for one moment that the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, etc all worshipped and believed in their gods as much, IF NOT MORE, than you believe in yours? What happened to their Gods? Yes, the exact same thing that will happen to your God, with the next huge religion to come in and replace it. Unfortunately that may never happen, as humanity is beginning to smarten the fuck up, well, some of it atleast.
Ancient Rome, Greece, Nords, Byzantine, Mesopotamia, Egypt, China, India, and Japan? Very good examples as their Gods never existed either, and pretty well ALL of these religions were older and far more tenured than Christianity ever was and most likely ever will be.
Look up implicit atheism.
Without quoting your bible, without using flawed means of justifying a creator, without making excuses for your rewritten fairy tale book with most of it's stories stolen from cultures that worshipped completely different gods, please explain how you know God exists.
Fact is, you can't.
And don't come up with that bullshit "I can feel his presence".
Yeah, when I start hearing voices chirping in my head, then I'll convert to christianity and enter an insane asylum.
Don't you think for one moment that the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, etc all worshipped and believed in their gods as much, IF NOT MORE, than you believe in yours? What happened to their Gods? Yes, the exact same thing that will happen to your God, with the next huge religion to come in and replace it. Unfortunately that may never happen, as humanity is beginning to smarten the fuck up, well, some of it atleast.
If you guys had been reading closely, you would see that I fully admit I have zero proof that a supreme being named God exists. That's why religious beliefs about the afterlife & "Supreme beings" or "Supreme laws" are taken on FAITH.
I don't have proof of Gods existence & I never claimed to. I am not a bible thumper. The way I look at the bible is in a metaphorical sense. Noah's Ark propably didn't happen for one thing.
I use the stories as metaphors for improving human beings. The ten commandments make sense to me and there isn't many people who would disagree with them.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
So in the end the inevitable truth is
"No one knows". Now of course this makes religious & atheist people angry as fuck, because no one likes to hear the truth.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
Ehm... Evolution ? And carbon dating ?
That's for religion gods.
As for your god - you made it up.
Questions ?
Look up implicit atheism.
Ok I did. But that would be pretty hard, considering religion has been around since the dawn of mankind. In every society on earth, no matter how old, there was religious beliefs and rituals.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
Ehm... Evolution ?
It's still not proof. It's a theory btw and isn't the answer to "does a supreme being exist". It's merely observing changes in nature.
Without quoting your bible, without using flawed means of justifying a creator, without making excuses for your rewritten fairy tale book with most of it's stories stolen from cultures that worshipped completely different gods, please explain how you know God exists.
Fact is, you can't.
And don't come up with that bullshit "I can feel his presence".
Yeah, when I start hearing voices chirping in my head, then I'll convert to christianity and enter an insane asylum.
Don't you think for one moment that the Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, etc all worshipped and believed in their gods as much, IF NOT MORE, than you believe in yours? What happened to their Gods? Yes, the exact same thing that will happen to your God, with the next huge religion to come in and replace it. Unfortunately that may never happen, as humanity is beginning to smarten the fuck up, well, some of it atleast.
If you guys had been reading closely, you would see that I fully admit I have zero proof that a supreme being named God exists. That's why religious beliefs about the afterlife & "Supreme beings" or "Supreme laws" are taken on FAITH.
I don't have proof of Gods existence & I never claimed to. I am not a bible thumper. The way I look at the bible is in a metaphorical sense. Noah's Ark propably didn't happen for one thing.
I use the stories as metaphors for improving human beings. The ten commandments make sense to me and there isn't many people who would disagree with them.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
So in the end the inevitable truth is
"No one knows". Now of course this makes religious & atheist people angry as fuck, because no one likes to hear the truth.
No, you don't know. For the rest of us intelligent products of society, we'll live a happy life knowing that we're going to be stuffed full of preservatives and partially rot away inside a coffin, and that is it. We don't worry about living our lives in canon to a book in the hopes that we're going to go some place that is beautiful and paradise.
If you're using the bible as a metaphor for good reasoning or how to treat others, you're very flawed in your logic. Your bible teaches you to hate anyone that doesn't follow your religion. It also commands you to kill all blasphemers, heretics, and to an extent, apostates.
The rest of us know that to treat others right, you treat others right. There is no rule book that lays out man's ability for empathy. We don't need religion to be decent people.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
Ehm... Evolution ? And carbon dating ?
That's for religion gods.
As for your god - you made it up.
Questions ?
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
Ehm... Evolution ?
It's still not proof. It's a theory btw and isn't the answer to "does a supreme being exist". It's merely observing changes in nature.
So when a change happens in nature to make it more suited for a certain task, that's just random growth and has absolutely nothing to do with adaptation through trial and error? How do you explain when all of a sudden one change is effected across an entire species? Is this a god pulling strings?
You just defined evolution, and you admitted these changes happen. You admitted evolution is working.
So, meh.
atheists do not believe anything on faith. generally an atheist is not someone who says "i know there is no god" they would more likely say "there is no evidence for god" meaning that an atheist has not seen any good, rational reason to believe in a god & therefore does not. they are not making any positive claims, that means they have no burden of proof. the theist is the one making the claim & therefore has to prove it.
simple example that you can understand:
i tell you that i know there are an uneven number of blades of grass in my garden. you say you don't believe i know this.
you would likely then say:
how do you know?
did you count them all?
what proof have you got to back up this claim?
do you have any evidence for this knowledge?
etc...
1. i have made the claim, therefore i have to prove it, you do not have to prove that there's an even number
2. just because you say you don't believe me when i say there are an uneven number of blades of grass, that doesn't mean that you're saying there is an even number of blades of grass. i.e. just because i say i don't believe people when they say they know there's a god, that doesn't mean that i'm saying i know there isn't.
or if you still don't understand, look at it like this:
in a court of law, it's "innocent until proven guilty". the prosecution is making the claim that someone did something wrong & they have to prove that. if there is absolutely no evidence, the defence doesn't have to do anything.
burden of proof - READ IT!
in case you don't, here's probably an important part:
"An even more basic principle to remember here is that some burden of proof always lies with the person who is making a claim, not the person who is hearing the claim and who may not initially believe it."
not trying to annoy,insult or troll you, but i genuinely would like you to respond directly to this.
edit: scobie most definitely won the thread btw.
Ha! I know/believe you watch the Atheist Experience.
Ha! I know/believe you watch the Atheist Experience.
i know you're wrong!
i don't watch it, i listen to the mp3 version i download from their site while working on my computer.
sadly, this the little original content TAN gets, so by default it should be a yes.
sadly, this the little original content TAN gets, so by default it should be a yes.
It was a good idea to start the poll and thought it funny, till I read through the exhausting arguments.... anyways good poll Dark.
- Not debating whether a god created the universe or it was just nature
- Not saying religious is better
- Not saying atheism is better
All I'm saying is no one has concrete proof a supreme being exists or not. I get the point about certain bible events being copied from older religions and older beliefs. I'm not here to debate the bible. I don't follow the bible that much and haven't read it all.
What I am trying to combat is the stereotypical atheist thinking he is superior to religious people because he "doesn't believe in fairytales" and how they have to flaunt it in the face of others.
What I am trying to combat is the stereotypical atheist thinking he is superior to religious people because he "doesn't believe in fairytales" and how they have to flaunt it in the face of others.
[/quote]
- Not debating whether a god created the universe or it was just nature
- Not saying religious is better
- Not saying atheism is better
All I'm saying is no one has concrete proof a supreme being exists or not. I get the point about certain bible events being copied from older religions and older beliefs. I'm not here to debate the bible. I don't follow the bible that much and haven't read it all.
What I am trying to combat is the stereotypical atheist thinking he is superior to religious people because he "doesn't believe in fairytales" and how they have to flaunt it in the face of others.
the problem is too many allegedly "religious" folk pass off there personal opinions as religious facts and commit gross logical fallacies in the process. What I mean by facts is stuff you can corroborate with actual religious experts, like the pope or stuff that is actual canon in the bible/koran/etc. So when people literally make stuff up and pretend that its "religious" when its actually just a personal belief its hard not to feel superior when they are talking out of there ass. Too many christians act like they know what they are talking about when they haven't even read the bible.
- Not debating whether a god created the universe or it was just nature
- Not saying religious is better
- Not saying atheism is better
All I'm saying is no one has concrete proof a supreme being exists or not. I get the point about certain bible events being copied from older religions and older beliefs. I'm not here to debate the bible. I don't follow the bible that much and haven't read it all.
What I am trying to combat is the stereotypical atheist thinking he is superior to religious people because he "doesn't believe in fairytales" and how they have to flaunt it in the face of others.
until you understand evolution, you cannot unequivocably say that only a god created man. Your argument is based on ignorance by this logic.
You are correct, it is the fault of humans. Religion is ultimately a human invention. But you have got to remember: It takes religion to turn good people into evil assholes.
You are right in that religion is a human invention. But you are wrong to assume Religion, an inanimate object, turns people evil. People turn people evil. People perform actions we perceive as evil. Does the motive for the evil action matter? In the end it is still an evil thing that the person consciously made the decision to perform.
Perhaps if we banned all religion it would reduce the amount of evil in the world? Heavens no. The same man would just find some other justification as all criminals do.
meh..i just consider myself an agnostic. don't believe in any god, but i can't prove it otherwise and wouldn't care to...
I am not religious and I try keep my religious beliefs to myself. I believe there is a god. But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well), and at our deaths the final judgement happens.
~Wolffe.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
Ehm... Evolution ? And carbon dating ?
That's for religion gods.
God just put that there to confuse us....thought everyone knew that
I am not religious and I try keep my religious beliefs to myself. I believe there is a god. But I believe he gave man free will to ultimately control his or her own destiny and that he doesn't interfere with our lives very much. I believe he let's us live out our lives the way we want (If I were a creator of an intelligent species, I'd want them to have free will as well), and at our deaths the final judgement happens.
~Wolffe.
Hey, you're the one said that you believe in God. Are you saying god exists but he didn't do fuck all and literally sat around trolling the human race for thousands of years? What is a purpose for a God if it literally does fuck all? If you believe in God, you believe he created man. You can't have one but not the other.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
Ehm... Evolution ? And carbon dating ?
That's for religion gods.
As for your god - you made it up.
Questions ?
And that's all there is to it.
In the end, no matter how smart or how much proof you think you have, you cannot prove whether a Divine Creator exists or not. I can't either.
Ehm... Evolution ? And carbon dating ?
That's for religion gods.
God just put that there to confuse us....thought everyone knew that
If it's possible for one person to contradict themselves so much in one thread, maybe there could be a god?!
This is my favourite line, set me up for the day:
Lorf.
These religious apologists always make me laugh. They take a softer line than wingnuts, thinking that if they're 'reasonable' they'll finally get through to us. What they don't realise is that you can't be 'a bit' religious. Sure, you can say you're a bit religious, but you're not. Religion isn't an a la carte. Organised religion has the texts, the rituals, etc. This is where you learn about your flavour of god, you can't just make shit up to suit your lifestyle and still call yourself christian. "'I believe in a christian god, but I don't believe all those silly rules in the book of the word of god" type of thinking is actually worse than being a proper believer.
As for the 10 golden rules, the order they come in is as bad as the content. It's funny that you extol their perfection, yet you hate your mother. I suppose you're consistently contradictory, so at least there's that.
Anyway, this thread is about how awesoem I am, not about god. Stop hijacking.
/thread ends
/thread ends
It's so easy : there are two types of people on TAN. One type at least tries to be open to new facts and interpretations of the same. Then there is the Wolffe/Deo/Ed/Cyril/Otester type that(they're nice guys this is nothing personal) just ignores whatever facts they wish to ignore. Herp derp said evolution is bullshit, so the "Wolffe/Deo/Ed/Cyril/Otester" type assumes this without question. They then use this obviously not-based-on-facts information to try and question any sort of scientific argument the other type of TANer makes. nuff
said.
@scobie
One can't be "a bit" religious? This makes me think you don't even know what religion is...
and TBH this thread isn't about how awesome you are, because you're an utter retard. You just won the discussion with a fellow utter retard that happens to be highly religious too, making your discussion easy as fuck.
It's so easy : there are two types of people on TAN. One type at least tries to be open to new facts and interpretations of the same. Then there is the Wolffe/Deo/Ed/Cyril/Otester type that(they're nice guys this is nothing personal) just ignores whatever facts they wish to ignore. Herp derp said evolution is bullshit, so the "Wolffe/Deo/Ed/Cyril/Otester" type assumes this without question. They then use this obviously not-based-on-facts information to try and question any sort of scientific argument the other type of TANer makes. nuff
said.
@scobie
One can't be "a bit" religious? This makes me think you don't even know what religion is...
and TBH this thread isn't about how awesome you are, because you're an utter retard. You just won the discussion with a fellow utter retard that happens to be highly religious too, making your discussion easy as fuck.
^
LOL
Scobie IS awesome. Idiot.
In fact Jesus Christ was never an evangelical. Read the bible and you will never see Jesus trying to convert anyone or telling anyone that their religion was false and evil.
Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
1:16 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.
1:17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.
1:18 And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.
Matthew 9:35: Jesus set out on a tour of all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues and preaching the good news of the kingdom.
Etc etc. I'm not going to touch your "double negatives = religion" argument. Not accepting a fairy tale doesn't constitute a religion, if anything the absence of belief is the opposite of religion. Whatever definition you have of religion, lexicographers got there first.
^
Scob is incorrect - Jesus was the FULFILLMENT of the Jewish religion - but they rejected Him.
Argument from ignorance
/thread ends
Argument from ignorance
^
DAMMIT!!! Dark, did I NOT, just ask you to STOP being stupid? Apparently, you do not understand science...and never will...
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
+1
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
so? That's nice. Those people are annoying.
@scobie
One can't be "a bit" religious? This makes me think you don't even know what religion is...
Ohh, touched a nerve, have I?
Please, I know I've already quoted the definition of religion, but do tell me what religion is. Tell me how picking and choosing the bits you like from a religion and ignoring the rest isn't just making shit up? If you think you're a christian but you ignore the word of the lord, you're not a christian. You're too weak to live within the established rules so you change it, as if you're a god. Of course, there is precedence. There was a certain jew zombie that didn't like everything in his religion either, so he set up his own.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
so? That's nice. Those people are annoying.
No, they are infringing on people's freedom by telling them based on their judgment what to believe in or risk spending life in some fairtytale torture chamber. Last I checked, no one has any right to judge others based on their beliefs. Yet, Christians and other fairytale-believing cookoofucks make use of this action every day. Not to mention, in your favorite country that you don't live in, some no-need-to-mention conservative republics are trying to make state and church, or atleast school and church one. This is infringing on the freedoms of anyone who is not a christian, so please don't tell me Christians don't infringe on peoples freedoms.
Hmmmmm, in this country, people have a "right" to believe as they wish - so I think it is YOU who are infringing on people's freedoms by insisting that they believe as you do...
I certainly do NOT give a rat's ass, that atheists do not believe in a God - I just do not understand why if they do not believe in a God - they get sooooo fucking upset that others DO. Therefore, atheists seem more than a bit mentally unbalanced. Remember: Athiests were the biggest mass murderers the world has ever seen, examples: Stalin, Mao, Hitler...
Hmmmmm, in this country, people have a "right" to believe as they wish - so I think it is YOU who are infringing on people's freedoms by insisting that they believe as you do...
I certainly do NOT give a rat's ass, that atheists do not believe in a God - I just do not understand why if they do not believe in a God - they get sooooo fucking upset that others DO. Therefore, atheists seem more than a bit mentally unbalanced. Remember: Athiests were the biggest mass murderers the world has ever seen, examples: Stalin, Mao, Hitler...
Crusades? Millions of people killed in the name of a religion simply because others who believed in other just as valid deities were slaughtered.
Your beloved republicans are trying to bring the church into schools. Do you think that is right to force beliefs on people who have a right to believe in whatever they want?
Hmmmmm, in this country, people have a "right" to believe as they wish - so I think it is YOU who are infringing on people's freedoms by insisting that they believe as you do...
I certainly do NOT give a rat's ass, that atheists do not believe in a God - I just do not understand why if they do not believe in a God - they get sooooo fucking upset that others DO.
That's how i feel about the subject. Then again, TAN is the only place that is obsessed with the whole atheist talking points. Believe what you want.
Hmmmmm, in this country, people have a "right" to believe as they wish - so I think it is YOU who are infringing on people's freedoms by insisting that they believe as you do...
I certainly do NOT give a rat's ass, that atheists do not believe in a God - I just do not understand why if they do not believe in a God - they get sooooo fucking upset that others DO.
That's how i feel about the subject. Then again, TAN is the only place that is obsessed with the whole atheist talking points. Believe what you want.
Totally agree, you people go completely ape shit on Christians.
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
The only people I see being completely judgmental and unreasonable are the atheists in this thread. I don't give a fuck what you believe or if your going to hell. I have never told some one what to believe or that their wrong. But you can come along and continually piss all over others faith. You can go fuck yourself and "Good Day To You!!!"
Wolfe was being reasonable, and is entitled to his opinion, now leave him the hell alone.
LMFAO @ the Christians playing the victim.
LMFAO @ the Christians playing the victim.
Nope, it's all the same to me. Still, i must admit i find the whole religion debate to be a fascinating subject.
nothing matters....except kittenz
don't you mean Freedumb? You know fuck all what freedom actually means, you parasite. You think freedumb is guns and jesus. You're enslaved to your book and the dollar (not to mention getting it for free and hating socialist systems), I'm only enslaved to the dollar, therefore I am more a free man than you'll ever be
nothing matters....except kittenz
yes, kittens and heavy metal
nothing matters....except kittenz
yes, kittens and heavy metal
or even better.....heavy metal kittens!
It shows you how little respect they have for freedom.
LOL, fuck you buddy.
If a Christian walks down the street and keeps to themselves, it's like anything, "Good day to you".
If a Chrisitian walks down the street and tells me I am a sinner and blasphemer and after I die I'm going to be tortured every day for eternity, then it's like anything, "Go fuck off and read your fairy tales".
^
Ah, Proof, but if the Prophet tells you to throw acid in the face of a school girl - - you praise Allah and DO IT... Yeah, make fun of Jesus - the actual prophet of peace... Hahahahaha you fucking idiot.
Just in case nobody told you that yet.
I forgive you...
What a christian thing to do !
nothing matters....except kittenz
yes, kittens and heavy metal
or even better,,,,heavy metal kittens!
lol, very cute!
Just in case nobody told you that yet.
Kinda find it funny you giving advice on how not to be a douche
... but hey you'd know....
Hahahahahahaha That was funny - - Poor Lith...
It's basicly means to falsely elevate yourself in social situation and it doesn't really fly after high school.
You should really know this.
What more do you want from me, Lith? I have already, repeatedly stated that I am sorry that you are Gay...
Thank you Lith, your approval means a lot to me.