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Posted by
dandatrk
promoted 2 years 9 months ago, posted 2 years 9 months ago
[poll]
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| 296 views | 30 votes
Best Car Manufacturer
best
car
manufacturer
-
Toyota
13.33% (4)
-
Honda
10% (3)
-
Ford
20% (6)
-
Porsche
0% (0)
-
Ferrari
0% (0)
-
Fiat
0% (0)
-
Audi
0% (0)
-
BMW
6.67% (2)
-
Holden
0% (0)
-
Chevrolet
3.33% (1)
-
VW
10% (3)
-
Mercedes Benz
6.67% (2)
-
Subaru
0% (0)
-
Mazda
0% (0)
-
Mitsubishi
0% (0)
-
Maserati
0% (0)
-
Lamborghini
0% (0)
-
Pagani
0% (0)
-
Jaguar
0% (0)
-
Chrysler
0% (0)
-
Nissan
6.67% (2)
-
Land Rover
0% (0)
-
Aston Martin
10% (3)
-
Koenigsegg
0% (0)
-
Lancia
6.67% (2)
-
Lexus
0% (0)
-
GMC
0% (0)
-
Dodge
0% (0)
-
Bugatti
0% (0)
-
Alfa Romeo
0% (0)
-
Volvo
3.33% (1)
-
Saab
0% (0)
-
Rover
3.33% (1)
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Mini
0% (0)
-
Other (i know there are more but they aren't important enough to be on this list)
0% (0)
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Ended
40
| 296 views | 30 votes
[/quote]
btw: where was TAN for the last few hours?
btw: where was TAN for the last few hours?
[/quote]
Pagani is the bomb, they gave kids of a new generation a reason to put up suparcar posters, there had been a shortage ever since the countach
[quote user=mrbig4545]wheres rover?
[/quote]
put them in.......... happy now??
Pagani is the bomb, they gave kids of a new generation a reason to put up suparcar posters, there had been a shortage ever since the countach
put them in.......... happy now??
[/quote]
*literally laughing so hard I'm crying*
*literally laughing so hard I'm crying*
[/quote]
that statement right there shows that you don't know crap about your cars....... up until the japs arrived big making cars in the 1960, all cars were unreliable..... just check out the stats for the v-tec engine, millions of units produced and not one failure...
also my evo is a testament to reliability, its got over 320kw going through the gearbox, which was only designed to have 200kw, and it still works like it should.....
you also have to just look at reliability surveys, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Mazda are always high up on the list....
that statement right there shows that you don't know crap about your cars....... up until the japs arrived big making cars in the 1960, all cars were unreliable..... just check out the stats for the v-tec engine, millions of units produced and not one failure...
also my evo is a testament to reliability, its got over 320kw going through the gearbox, which was only designed to have 200kw, and it still works like it should.....
you also have to just look at reliability surveys, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Mazda are always high up on the list....
[/quote]
My Mitsibishi Sexpo has 151,000 miles on it. And the Toyota 22R engine is a tough long running engine.
My Mitsibishi Sexpo has 151,000 miles on it. And the Toyota 22R engine is a tough long running engine.
that statement right there shows that you don't know crap about your cars....... up until the japs arrived big making cars in the 1960, all cars were unreliable..... just check out the stats for the v-tec engine, millions of units produced and not one failure...
also my evo is a testament to reliability, its got over 320kw going through the gearbox, which was only designed to have 200kw, and it still works like it should.....
you also have to just look at reliability surveys, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Mazda are always high up on the list....
[/quote]
[quote user=ShanusMaximus] [quote user=mmateri]jap cars are shit, they don't stand up to abuse at all, not sure about german cars[/quote]
My Mitsibishi Sexpo has 151,000 miles on it. And the Toyota 22R engine is a tough long running engine.
[/quote]
i've been in racing, and a mechanic for years..............jap cars don't handle abuse.....and i am very hard on cars......for that matter all front drive cars suck
sure if you drive them nice they do ok.........but i abuse a car to a level that almost no drivers have the skill to replicate and live to tell about it........
yeah the honda v-tec has broken down tonne's but just never as a warranty claim danda..........and yeah shanus the 22r is a decent motor, but its a gutless little bastard that could be made outta plastic and still be reliable
that statement right there shows that you don't know crap about your cars....... up until the japs arrived big making cars in the 1960, all cars were unreliable..... just check out the stats for the v-tec engine, millions of units produced and not one failure...
also my evo is a testament to reliability, its got over 320kw going through the gearbox, which was only designed to have 200kw, and it still works like it should.....
you also have to just look at reliability surveys, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Mazda are always high up on the list....
My Mitsibishi Sexpo has 151,000 miles on it. And the Toyota 22R engine is a tough long running engine.
i've been in racing, and a mechanic for years..............jap cars don't handle abuse.....and i am very hard on cars......for that matter all front drive cars suck
sure if you drive them nice they do ok.........but i abuse a car to a level that almost no drivers have the skill to replicate and live to tell about it........
yeah the honda v-tec has broken down tonne's but just never as a warranty claim danda..........and yeah shanus the 22r is a decent motor, but its a gutless little bastard that could be made outta plastic and still be reliable
[/quote]
My mom's Subaru Outback wagon has over 300,000 miles, which is impressive considering the lack of care the car receives. While most of that is highway, there is a considerable amount of country road/off road/severe weather driving. It has long eclipsed the early 70's Dodge pickup she had.
No car made in America in a very long time has had the value, reliability, mileage, or longevity that imports have had. This is the exact reason for the decline of the American automaker. The early to mid 1970's were the last time that American cars mattered, and those were the short lived muscle/performance vehicles. Then the oil crisis of the late 70's hit, and domestic brands struggled because they relied on bigger, thirstier engines while foreign manufacturers figured out how to get more from less.
The simple fact of the matter is "innovate or die," and Ford, GM, and Mopar have failed to improve their products time and time again.
My mom's Subaru Outback wagon has over 300,000 miles, which is impressive considering the lack of care the car receives. While most of that is highway, there is a considerable amount of country road/off road/severe weather driving. It has long eclipsed the early 70's Dodge pickup she had.
No car made in America in a very long time has had the value, reliability, mileage, or longevity that imports have had. This is the exact reason for the decline of the American automaker. The early to mid 1970's were the last time that American cars mattered, and those were the short lived muscle/performance vehicles. Then the oil crisis of the late 70's hit, and domestic brands struggled because they relied on bigger, thirstier engines while foreign manufacturers figured out how to get more from less.
The simple fact of the matter is "innovate or die," and Ford, GM, and Mopar have failed to improve their products time and time again.
[/quote]
you fucking traitor
you fucking traitor
sure if you drive them nice they do ok.........but i abuse a car to a level that almost no drivers have the skill to replicate and live to tell about it........
yeah the honda v-tec has broken down tonne's but just never as a warranty claim danda..........and yeah shanus the 22r is a decent motor, but its a gutless little bastard that could be made outta plastic and still be reliable
[/quote]
im also hard on my evo, have done the targa victoria twice and have gone on the local rally stages here aswell and my car is as good as it ever was... the only mods i have made on that car are on the engine, which would make it more unreliable, and the tyres/rims.... my evo is still awesome..... there is a good reason why jap car sell more than american cars world wide, its because people know that with a jap car it will last and are generally better quality than an american car.....
sure if you drive them nice they do ok.........but i abuse a car to a level that almost no drivers have the skill to replicate and live to tell about it........
yeah the honda v-tec has broken down tonne's but just never as a warranty claim danda..........and yeah shanus the 22r is a decent motor, but its a gutless little bastard that could be made outta plastic and still be reliable
im also hard on my evo, have done the targa victoria twice and have gone on the local rally stages here aswell and my car is as good as it ever was... the only mods i have made on that car are on the engine, which would make it more unreliable, and the tyres/rims.... my evo is still awesome..... there is a good reason why jap car sell more than american cars world wide, its because people know that with a jap car it will last and are generally better quality than an american car.....
that statement right there shows that you don't know crap about your cars....... up until the japs arrived big making cars in the 1960, all cars were unreliable..... just check out the stats for the v-tec engine, millions of units produced and not one failure...
also my evo is a testament to reliability, its got over 320kw going through the gearbox, which was only designed to have 200kw, and it still works like it should.....
you also have to just look at reliability surveys, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Mazda are always high up on the list....
[/quote]
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is not one brand of Japanese make that can last in Northern Canada. Any German, American, italian, hell anything but ANY Asian manufactured car can handle the stresses of having to drive in -50C. I was born in Thompson, MB, Canada, at -45C (Generally January and early February) is when you see all the jap cars pulled over with suspension such as coils and control arms SNAPPED into pieces because the quality of metal they use in the manufacturing is far less than anything top end European manufacturers use. American manufacturers obviously have nothing on most European names, but they atleast build their vehicles to last in shit conditions. Best example of that is Ford.
I gauge quality of car in being to stand up to any condition and run well. I would not put any japanese make on this list, and would stay the fuck out of any korean make (KIA) simply because they are built to be sold to primarily Americans who do not see those cold temperatures even on the coldest of days.
Tear apart a jap car and strip down an American car and you will see obvious differences in the American make's favor in chassis and suspension durability/strength over ANY asian make (Acura included).
Toyota I would now include as an American manufacturer based solely on the fact that they minimally rely on imported parts from Japan and actually manufacturer nearly everything in America to American stress-test standards; not pathetic japanese stress-test standards. However you still would not find me driving a TOYota.
American engines may not be the most efficient on the planet, but American manufacturing simply beats Asian manufacturing in all areas for the conditions they are exposed to. European (German, Italian) manufacturers would, of course, walk all over everything else, but they are a pretty penny, and definitely get what you pay for.
that statement right there shows that you don't know crap about your cars....... up until the japs arrived big making cars in the 1960, all cars were unreliable..... just check out the stats for the v-tec engine, millions of units produced and not one failure...
also my evo is a testament to reliability, its got over 320kw going through the gearbox, which was only designed to have 200kw, and it still works like it should.....
you also have to just look at reliability surveys, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, Subaru and Mazda are always high up on the list....
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is not one brand of Japanese make that can last in Northern Canada. Any German, American, italian, hell anything but ANY Asian manufactured car can handle the stresses of having to drive in -50C. I was born in Thompson, MB, Canada, at -45C (Generally January and early February) is when you see all the jap cars pulled over with suspension such as coils and control arms SNAPPED into pieces because the quality of metal they use in the manufacturing is far less than anything top end European manufacturers use. American manufacturers obviously have nothing on most European names, but they atleast build their vehicles to last in shit conditions. Best example of that is Ford.
I gauge quality of car in being to stand up to any condition and run well. I would not put any japanese make on this list, and would stay the fuck out of any korean make (KIA) simply because they are built to be sold to primarily Americans who do not see those cold temperatures even on the coldest of days.
Tear apart a jap car and strip down an American car and you will see obvious differences in the American make's favor in chassis and suspension durability/strength over ANY asian make (Acura included).
Toyota I would now include as an American manufacturer based solely on the fact that they minimally rely on imported parts from Japan and actually manufacturer nearly everything in America to American stress-test standards; not pathetic japanese stress-test standards. However you still would not find me driving a TOYota.
American engines may not be the most efficient on the planet, but American manufacturing simply beats Asian manufacturing in all areas for the conditions they are exposed to. European (German, Italian) manufacturers would, of course, walk all over everything else, but they are a pretty penny, and definitely get what you pay for.
Japan is small. They don't need Cummins engines and the like. They wouldn't be able to park their vehicles anywhere. Considering that, I think they've done a pretty damn good job suiting the desires of the west in cars.
Japan is small. They don't need Cummins engines and the like. They wouldn't be able to park their vehicles anywhere. Considering that, I think they've done a pretty damn good job suiting the desires of the west in cars.
Japan is small. They don't need Cummins engines and the like. They wouldn't be able to park their vehicles anywhere. Considering that, I think they've done a pretty damn good job suiting the desires of the west in cars.
[/quote]
A great manufacturer will have no bias as to what environment is suitable for their vehicles. That is pretty much admitting that they use sub-standard parts that can last in one climate but not last in another.
Ford simply creates vehicles, and the work well in all climates from South America to Alaska, and they aren't TRYING to do it, it's just simply using the strongest of materials (same can go for GM and Dodge, although GM has it's detractive qualities).
A great example of what I'm trying to say (as my above point is biased as the vehicle is built in/around the area I'm using as an example) would be Volkswagen, and a more expensive example Mercedez Benz. VW makes small vehicles, but the fact is.... they last. Up in the north the VW's run flawlessly in cold weather. Same with mercedez. My mother actually owns a ML350, and that machine runs flawlessly in Thompson's worst conditions. They live in Sudbury, Ontario, and with the amount of salt used in the winters and surprisingly cold weather they get is a testament to a vehicle if it doesn't rust after one season in salt-caked roads. That's a great example of a vehicle simply built well that works perfectly in completely alien climates compared to what it was built for (mercedez small SUV's are marketed heavily towards Americans).
This is why I simply do not believe anyone that says "But a car is built for certain climates/areas". That's bullshit. If it's built well, it will last ANYWHERE, doesn't matter if it's hot or cold, hills or prairie, potholes or flat road, a good vehicle will simply perform well.
[QUOTE=mmateri]
^ look no further than alberta's oil and gas industy, a while back nissan was going to get into the heavy duty truck market, but when it came down to it they just couldn't compete and make it cost efficient for anyone to buy their trucks..........you won't find one japanese vehicle in the oil and gas industry in northern bc and alberta..........NOT ONE
[/QUOTE]
You cannot get into any more rigorous conditions than this. I cannot find the picture (as i completely forget what they are called) but all the Alberta oil sands where drilling takes place, the ONLY trucks suitable for these conditions are provided by ford from factory which are F-250's with retrofitted track wheels (just like you'd see on a skid-steer). No jap company out there could justify the costs of having to build an entirely new line of parts and opening up a whole assembly line for said parts just to compete in these conditions. It's just not feasible.
I always find it funny when Nissan guys try to say their trucks can hold up to anything American. Power-wise, sure they are competitive. Mileage, sure. Durability? I don't mean to drive a point into the ground, but there is a reason why everyone in my hometown traded the Titan's out for a GM or Ford after 3 months. They simply run like shit in cold weather and get WAY too stiff in both suspension and steering to be considered safe. Nissan "We love to make power steering hoses out polypropelene plastics". Nissan"We love to cut corners because we're made by japanese manufacturers that don't put quality first".
The Nissan Titan is a fucking joke. Nissan was basically being a jap company ripping off everything Dodge put into their RAM trucks. Big Engine, High-geared transmission, and absolutely no weight to the rear end. This translates into a truck that can't pull shit without trailer sway and buck. Nissan tried, but they could not emulate dodge. I'm not a dodge fan in the least, but their new transmissions are quite impressive, low end torque bias, but an amazing amount of top end output, translating into a truck that can pull like a mother fucker (and not spin it's wheels trying) and also whip the shit out of any comparable truck on the road in a race.
Sure, the japs make great cars for Americans, but that says something about the quality of the vehicles if they can only last in America and Mexico. The true test of a vehicle isn't heat (metal LOVES heat), it's endurance in cold weather, of which no japanese manufacturer can say they build their vehicles suitable for.
Ford is making MAJOR strides against their japanese counterparts in their V6 division. The new Taurus with 3.5L Ecoboost v6 boasts 365 HP and 350 Ft/lbs Torque, and still holding a city mpg of 17 and hwy 28. That highway rating is better than a chevy malibu. Honda's 3.4L Accord gets 4 mpg better, but is lacking in power by nearly a full 100 HP (Ford: 365, Accord : 271). I won't do the math, but i'd guess the ford is more efficient vehicle out of the two when taking into consideration HP per cylinder against mileage. Pile on top of that a vehicle built of far superior materials and you've got a sale.
Japan is small. They don't need Cummins engines and the like. They wouldn't be able to park their vehicles anywhere. Considering that, I think they've done a pretty damn good job suiting the desires of the west in cars.
A great manufacturer will have no bias as to what environment is suitable for their vehicles. That is pretty much admitting that they use sub-standard parts that can last in one climate but not last in another.
Ford simply creates vehicles, and the work well in all climates from South America to Alaska, and they aren't TRYING to do it, it's just simply using the strongest of materials (same can go for GM and Dodge, although GM has it's detractive qualities).
A great example of what I'm trying to say (as my above point is biased as the vehicle is built in/around the area I'm using as an example) would be Volkswagen, and a more expensive example Mercedez Benz. VW makes small vehicles, but the fact is.... they last. Up in the north the VW's run flawlessly in cold weather. Same with mercedez. My mother actually owns a ML350, and that machine runs flawlessly in Thompson's worst conditions. They live in Sudbury, Ontario, and with the amount of salt used in the winters and surprisingly cold weather they get is a testament to a vehicle if it doesn't rust after one season in salt-caked roads. That's a great example of a vehicle simply built well that works perfectly in completely alien climates compared to what it was built for (mercedez small SUV's are marketed heavily towards Americans).
This is why I simply do not believe anyone that says "But a car is built for certain climates/areas". That's bullshit. If it's built well, it will last ANYWHERE, doesn't matter if it's hot or cold, hills or prairie, potholes or flat road, a good vehicle will simply perform well.
^ look no further than alberta's oil and gas industy, a while back nissan was going to get into the heavy duty truck market, but when it came down to it they just couldn't compete and make it cost efficient for anyone to buy their trucks..........you won't find one japanese vehicle in the oil and gas industry in northern bc and alberta..........NOT ONE
You cannot get into any more rigorous conditions than this. I cannot find the picture (as i completely forget what they are called) but all the Alberta oil sands where drilling takes place, the ONLY trucks suitable for these conditions are provided by ford from factory which are F-250's with retrofitted track wheels (just like you'd see on a skid-steer). No jap company out there could justify the costs of having to build an entirely new line of parts and opening up a whole assembly line for said parts just to compete in these conditions. It's just not feasible.
I always find it funny when Nissan guys try to say their trucks can hold up to anything American. Power-wise, sure they are competitive. Mileage, sure. Durability? I don't mean to drive a point into the ground, but there is a reason why everyone in my hometown traded the Titan's out for a GM or Ford after 3 months. They simply run like shit in cold weather and get WAY too stiff in both suspension and steering to be considered safe. Nissan "We love to make power steering hoses out polypropelene plastics". Nissan"We love to cut corners because we're made by japanese manufacturers that don't put quality first".
The Nissan Titan is a fucking joke. Nissan was basically being a jap company ripping off everything Dodge put into their RAM trucks. Big Engine, High-geared transmission, and absolutely no weight to the rear end. This translates into a truck that can't pull shit without trailer sway and buck. Nissan tried, but they could not emulate dodge. I'm not a dodge fan in the least, but their new transmissions are quite impressive, low end torque bias, but an amazing amount of top end output, translating into a truck that can pull like a mother fucker (and not spin it's wheels trying) and also whip the shit out of any comparable truck on the road in a race.
Sure, the japs make great cars for Americans, but that says something about the quality of the vehicles if they can only last in America and Mexico. The true test of a vehicle isn't heat (metal LOVES heat), it's endurance in cold weather, of which no japanese manufacturer can say they build their vehicles suitable for.
Ford is making MAJOR strides against their japanese counterparts in their V6 division. The new Taurus with 3.5L Ecoboost v6 boasts 365 HP and 350 Ft/lbs Torque, and still holding a city mpg of 17 and hwy 28. That highway rating is better than a chevy malibu. Honda's 3.4L Accord gets 4 mpg better, but is lacking in power by nearly a full 100 HP (Ford: 365, Accord : 271). I won't do the math, but i'd guess the ford is more efficient vehicle out of the two when taking into consideration HP per cylinder against mileage. Pile on top of that a vehicle built of far superior materials and you've got a sale.
[/quote]
Would you care to explain Jaguar and Mini being britain manufacturers? It must be german if it's located, operated out of, and manufactured in England. Obv.
Would you care to explain Jaguar and Mini being britain manufacturers? It must be german if it's located, operated out of, and manufactured in England. Obv.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is not one brand of Japanese make that can last in Northern Canada.
[/quote]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNkvASxfEWQ[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9MfnKoTM6c&feature=channel[/video]
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0hoPNmY4oU&feature=channel[/video]
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is not one brand of Japanese make that can last in Northern Canada.
Also, was that a rambo jeebus doll? in the first vid
Also, was that a rambo jeebus doll? in the first vid
[/quote]
Avatars are such a fad. obscurity is fucking key. FUCKING KEY.
EDIT: Fookin' happy?
@Big : those folks have funny faces. Must be alaskans ffs
Avatars are such a fad. obscurity is fucking key. FUCKING KEY.
EDIT: Fookin' happy?
@Big : those folks have funny faces. Must be alaskans ffs
A great manufacturer will have no bias as to what environment is suitable for their vehicles. That is pretty much admitting that they use sub-standard parts that can last in one climate but not last in another.
Ford simply creates vehicles, and the work well in all climates from South America to Alaska, and they aren't TRYING to do it, it's just simply using the strongest of materials (same can go for GM and Dodge, although GM has it's detractive qualities).
A great example of what I'm trying to say (as my above point is biased as the vehicle is built in/around the area I'm using as an example) would be Volkswagen, and a more expensive example Mercedez Benz. VW makes small vehicles, but the fact is.... they last. Up in the north the VW's run flawlessly in cold weather. Same with mercedez. My mother actually owns a ML350, and that machine runs flawlessly in Thompson's worst conditions. They live in Sudbury, Ontario, and with the amount of salt used in the winters and surprisingly cold weather they get is a testament to a vehicle if it doesn't rust after one season in salt-caked roads. That's a great example of a vehicle simply built well that works perfectly in completely alien climates compared to what it was built for (mercedez small SUV's are marketed heavily towards Americans).
This is why I simply do not believe anyone that says "But a car is built for certain climates/areas". That's bullshit. If it's built well, it will last ANYWHERE, doesn't matter if it's hot or cold, hills or prairie, potholes or flat road, a good vehicle will simply perform well.
[quote user=]^ look no further than alberta's oil and gas industy, a while back nissan was going to get into the heavy duty truck market, but when it came down to it they just couldn't compete and make it cost efficient for anyone to buy their trucks..........you won't find one japanese vehicle in the oil and gas industry in northern bc and alberta..........NOT ONE[/quote]
You cannot get into any more rigorous conditions than this. I cannot find the picture (as i completely forget what they are called) but all the Alberta oil sands where drilling takes place, the ONLY trucks suitable for these conditions are provided by ford from factory which are F-250's with retrofitted track wheels (just like you'd see on a skid-steer). No jap company out there could justify the costs of having to build an entirely new line of parts and opening up a whole assembly line for said parts just to compete in these conditions. It's just not feasible.
I always find it funny when Nissan guys try to say their trucks can hold up to anything American. Power-wise, sure they are competitive. Mileage, sure. Durability? I don't mean to drive a point into the ground, but there is a reason why everyone in my hometown traded the Titan's out for a GM or Ford after 3 months. They simply run like shit in cold weather and get WAY too stiff in both suspension and steering to be considered safe. Nissan "We love to make power steering hoses out polypropelene plastics". Nissan"We love to cut corners because we're made by japanese manufacturers that don't put quality first".
The Nissan Titan is a fucking joke. Nissan was basically being a jap company ripping off everything Dodge put into their RAM trucks. Big Engine, High-geared transmission, and absolutely no weight to the rear end. This translates into a truck that can't pull shit without trailer sway and buck. Nissan tried, but they could not emulate dodge. I'm not a dodge fan in the least, but their new transmissions are quite impressive, low end torque bias, but an amazing amount of top end output, translating into a truck that can pull like a mother fucker (and not spin it's wheels trying) and also whip the shit out of any comparable truck on the road in a race.
Sure, the japs make great cars for Americans, but that says something about the quality of the vehicles if they can only last in America and Mexico. The true test of a vehicle isn't heat (metal LOVES heat), it's endurance in cold weather, of which no japanese manufacturer can say they build their vehicles suitable for.
Ford is making MAJOR strides against their japanese counterparts in their V6 division. The new Taurus with 3.5L Ecoboost v6 boasts 365 HP and 350 Ft/lbs Torque, and still holding a city mpg of 17 and hwy 28. That highway rating is better than a chevy malibu. Honda's 3.4L Accord gets 4 mpg better, but is lacking in power by nearly a full 100 HP (Ford: 365, Accord : 271). I won't do the math, but i'd guess the ford is more efficient vehicle out of the two when taking into consideration HP per cylinder against mileage. Pile on top of that a vehicle built of far superior materials and you've got a sale.
[/quote]
you obviously work for ford........................i sold fords for 5 years.........and in your last argument the taurus is also a size bigger car than the competition you spoke of 'accord, malibu'
western region which consists of bc, alberta, sask..western region has 85% of the ford truck sales in north america.......is where all the new ford superduty trucks are tested........they start the truck at -60 c...........and they variate the tempreture up to 50C...........in 90 seconds, up and down.........they ran the engine at redline for 50 hours...........with absolutely no problems...........but everyone believes in jap cars, not tested like this
the residual value on jap cars always seems to be higher per year, and no one knows the real reason for it.....they think its because they're higher quality cars, but that is false.....the united states puts a trade restriction on imported cars, and it created false residual values.......toyota tried to circumvent this by manufacturing in north america, and for the first time ever you saw toyota go from selling at ONE price, with no negotiation, to selling will negotiable profit margins......the residual values on toyota's are never what they were before they made their cars here......
unless you work in the business you'll never understand whats really behind the game..........
A great manufacturer will have no bias as to what environment is suitable for their vehicles. That is pretty much admitting that they use sub-standard parts that can last in one climate but not last in another.
Ford simply creates vehicles, and the work well in all climates from South America to Alaska, and they aren't TRYING to do it, it's just simply using the strongest of materials (same can go for GM and Dodge, although GM has it's detractive qualities).
A great example of what I'm trying to say (as my above point is biased as the vehicle is built in/around the area I'm using as an example) would be Volkswagen, and a more expensive example Mercedez Benz. VW makes small vehicles, but the fact is.... they last. Up in the north the VW's run flawlessly in cold weather. Same with mercedez. My mother actually owns a ML350, and that machine runs flawlessly in Thompson's worst conditions. They live in Sudbury, Ontario, and with the amount of salt used in the winters and surprisingly cold weather they get is a testament to a vehicle if it doesn't rust after one season in salt-caked roads. That's a great example of a vehicle simply built well that works perfectly in completely alien climates compared to what it was built for (mercedez small SUV's are marketed heavily towards Americans).
This is why I simply do not believe anyone that says "But a car is built for certain climates/areas". That's bullshit. If it's built well, it will last ANYWHERE, doesn't matter if it's hot or cold, hills or prairie, potholes or flat road, a good vehicle will simply perform well.
You cannot get into any more rigorous conditions than this. I cannot find the picture (as i completely forget what they are called) but all the Alberta oil sands where drilling takes place, the ONLY trucks suitable for these conditions are provided by ford from factory which are F-250's with retrofitted track wheels (just like you'd see on a skid-steer). No jap company out there could justify the costs of having to build an entirely new line of parts and opening up a whole assembly line for said parts just to compete in these conditions. It's just not feasible.
I always find it funny when Nissan guys try to say their trucks can hold up to anything American. Power-wise, sure they are competitive. Mileage, sure. Durability? I don't mean to drive a point into the ground, but there is a reason why everyone in my hometown traded the Titan's out for a GM or Ford after 3 months. They simply run like shit in cold weather and get WAY too stiff in both suspension and steering to be considered safe. Nissan "We love to make power steering hoses out polypropelene plastics". Nissan"We love to cut corners because we're made by japanese manufacturers that don't put quality first".
The Nissan Titan is a fucking joke. Nissan was basically being a jap company ripping off everything Dodge put into their RAM trucks. Big Engine, High-geared transmission, and absolutely no weight to the rear end. This translates into a truck that can't pull shit without trailer sway and buck. Nissan tried, but they could not emulate dodge. I'm not a dodge fan in the least, but their new transmissions are quite impressive, low end torque bias, but an amazing amount of top end output, translating into a truck that can pull like a mother fucker (and not spin it's wheels trying) and also whip the shit out of any comparable truck on the road in a race.
Sure, the japs make great cars for Americans, but that says something about the quality of the vehicles if they can only last in America and Mexico. The true test of a vehicle isn't heat (metal LOVES heat), it's endurance in cold weather, of which no japanese manufacturer can say they build their vehicles suitable for.
Ford is making MAJOR strides against their japanese counterparts in their V6 division. The new Taurus with 3.5L Ecoboost v6 boasts 365 HP and 350 Ft/lbs Torque, and still holding a city mpg of 17 and hwy 28. That highway rating is better than a chevy malibu. Honda's 3.4L Accord gets 4 mpg better, but is lacking in power by nearly a full 100 HP (Ford: 365, Accord : 271). I won't do the math, but i'd guess the ford is more efficient vehicle out of the two when taking into consideration HP per cylinder against mileage. Pile on top of that a vehicle built of far superior materials and you've got a sale.
you obviously work for ford........................i sold fords for 5 years.........and in your last argument the taurus is also a size bigger car than the competition you spoke of 'accord, malibu'
western region which consists of bc, alberta, sask..western region has 85% of the ford truck sales in north america.......is where all the new ford superduty trucks are tested........they start the truck at -60 c...........and they variate the tempreture up to 50C...........in 90 seconds, up and down.........they ran the engine at redline for 50 hours...........with absolutely no problems...........but everyone believes in jap cars, not tested like this
the residual value on jap cars always seems to be higher per year, and no one knows the real reason for it.....they think its because they're higher quality cars, but that is false.....the united states puts a trade restriction on imported cars, and it created false residual values.......toyota tried to circumvent this by manufacturing in north america, and for the first time ever you saw toyota go from selling at ONE price, with no negotiation, to selling will negotiable profit margins......the residual values on toyota's are never what they were before they made their cars here......
unless you work in the business you'll never understand whats really behind the game..........
you obviously work for ford........................i sold fords for 5 years.........and in your last argument the taurus is also a size bigger car than the competition you spoke of 'accord, malibu'
western region which consists of bc, alberta, sask..western region has 85% of the ford truck sales in north america.......is where all the new ford superduty trucks are tested........they start the truck at -60 c...........and they variate the tempreture up to 50C...........in 90 seconds, up and down.........they ran the engine at redline for 50 hours...........with absolutely no problems...........but everyone believes in jap cars, not tested like this
the residual value on jap cars always seems to be higher per year, and no one knows the real reason for it.....they think its because they're higher quality cars, but that is false.....the united states puts a trade restriction on imported cars, and it created false residual values.......toyota tried to circumvent this by manufacturing in north america, and for the first time ever you saw toyota go from selling at ONE price, with no negotiation, to selling will negotiable profit margins......the residual values on toyota's are never what they were before they made their cars here......
unless you work in the business you'll never understand whats really behind the game..........
[/quote]
Nope, don't work for ford. However have owned a Ranger, currently own an '06 F-150 and an 04 Pontiac Grand Prix. Have worked on Suspension with Honda's, Toyota's, Kia's, you name it. I've seen and been able to visibly compare to other manufacturers the absolute SHIT parts asian manufacturers put into their vehicles. The size of a Ford Focus's control arm is nearly double that of a fucking Civic. I know this as fact as I've worked on each car side by side.
I don't profess to be a full-fledged mechanic, but I can guarantee you I understand more about how a vehicle works, how to repair it, and so on, more than any greasy haired salesman trained to say certain things ever will. I've been in the sales game (not vehicles, but it's universal throughout ANY commission driven environment in retail), I know this fact is true.
Nobody's arguing value of vehicles. That is not directly related to quality. It is directly relational to value through their market shares. Chrysler being the best example. When their sales and investments tanked in the 80's during the recession (more so than most other manufacturers) it left a huge black mark on them for investors. Since the 80's Chrysler's have always seen the largest deprecation of value after leaving the lot than any other vehicle out there.
Idk what you were going on about, but you mostly agreed/supported everything I had said... lol
Also don't know what you're going on about the Taurus being a "bigger" car than and outside of the class of the malibu and accord. That is it's DIRECT competion. In fact, here is the list of cars that consumer reports have pitted it against : Honda Accord, TOYota Camry, Nissan Altima, and Chevy Malibu. Just remember, just 'cause you're/was a salesman doesn't mean you actually know shit about what you're selling ;)
you obviously work for ford........................i sold fords for 5 years.........and in your last argument the taurus is also a size bigger car than the competition you spoke of 'accord, malibu'
western region which consists of bc, alberta, sask..western region has 85% of the ford truck sales in north america.......is where all the new ford superduty trucks are tested........they start the truck at -60 c...........and they variate the tempreture up to 50C...........in 90 seconds, up and down.........they ran the engine at redline for 50 hours...........with absolutely no problems...........but everyone believes in jap cars, not tested like this
the residual value on jap cars always seems to be higher per year, and no one knows the real reason for it.....they think its because they're higher quality cars, but that is false.....the united states puts a trade restriction on imported cars, and it created false residual values.......toyota tried to circumvent this by manufacturing in north america, and for the first time ever you saw toyota go from selling at ONE price, with no negotiation, to selling will negotiable profit margins......the residual values on toyota's are never what they were before they made their cars here......
unless you work in the business you'll never understand whats really behind the game..........
Nope, don't work for ford. However have owned a Ranger, currently own an '06 F-150 and an 04 Pontiac Grand Prix. Have worked on Suspension with Honda's, Toyota's, Kia's, you name it. I've seen and been able to visibly compare to other manufacturers the absolute SHIT parts asian manufacturers put into their vehicles. The size of a Ford Focus's control arm is nearly double that of a fucking Civic. I know this as fact as I've worked on each car side by side.
I don't profess to be a full-fledged mechanic, but I can guarantee you I understand more about how a vehicle works, how to repair it, and so on, more than any greasy haired salesman trained to say certain things ever will. I've been in the sales game (not vehicles, but it's universal throughout ANY commission driven environment in retail), I know this fact is true.
Nobody's arguing value of vehicles. That is not directly related to quality. It is directly relational to value through their market shares. Chrysler being the best example. When their sales and investments tanked in the 80's during the recession (more so than most other manufacturers) it left a huge black mark on them for investors. Since the 80's Chrysler's have always seen the largest deprecation of value after leaving the lot than any other vehicle out there.
Idk what you were going on about, but you mostly agreed/supported everything I had said... lol
Also don't know what you're going on about the Taurus being a "bigger" car than and outside of the class of the malibu and accord. That is it's DIRECT competion. In fact, here is the list of cars that consumer reports have pitted it against : Honda Accord, TOYota Camry, Nissan Altima, and Chevy Malibu. Just remember, just 'cause you're/was a salesman doesn't mean you actually know shit about what you're selling
I was supporting your position the whole time.......and no the taurus isn't direct competition, the ford fusion is, and its the recommended buy of the bunch..........the fusion is twice the car of the japanese cars its compared too
I was supporting your position the whole time.......and no the taurus isn't direct competition, the ford fusion is, and its the recommended buy of the bunch..........the fusion is twice the car of the japanese cars its compared too
I was supporting your position the whole time.......and no the taurus isn't direct competition, the ford fusion is, and its the recommended buy of the bunch..........the fusion is twice the car of the japanese cars its compared too
[/quote]
You said you sold fords for 5 years and didn't make a mention of mechanical expertise, thus I assumed you were only a lowly salesman! My bad.
But you really should check for yourself. The Taurus IS the direct competition of the accord, regardless of what Ford wants to say. All the big reviewing companies pit it against the malibu, accord, and Altima. That is fact. Ford may call it a full-size sedan, but it is no larger than a mid-size (maybe just a bit, but not much). But that is a null point. As long as all the reviewing organizations consider it mid-size, and pit it against said competition, it is what THEY say it is, regardless of what the mother company classifies it. Also, keep in mind that the malibu is based off of Chevy's Epsilon wheelbase, which is nearly spot on with Taurus' wheelbase.
You've also got to take into consideration that Honda does not have a Full-size car for Ford to compete against. Toyota's full size car (Avalon) cannot compete with any other manufacturers' full-size sedan sales even fractionally as their customer/fan base nearly all opt for Civics and Accords (for those that buy cars). If Ford and Chevy were to pit the Taurus and Malibu or even the Impala/Monte Carlo against the Avalon it would be like beating a dead dog. Competition is more based upon regional sales than it is what the car can do. If that were the case, the Taurus would be direct competition for the Camaro and Challenger (keeping out of mind the mustang).
A true "Full Size" sedan would be something along the lines of my 04 Grand Prix, or say an '03 Monte Carlo, any of those W body cars from Chevy. 04 Grand Prix (Exact same car as mine aside from Rim's, but not mine lol), '10 Taurus (could not find a pic of one beside other cars for reference on size). My uncle owns the taurus and I've parked beside his car and it's smaller compared to mine (not saying mine is better by any long shot), and negligible difference in shoulder room between it and a Fusion (which I almost traded my car in for in '08 but decided not to because of the short headroom). Being inside both a Fusion and a Taurus there is not much difference in space, especially shoulder room. It's the head room and backseats that are the big difference.
The impala and Monte Carlo WOULD be good competition, if it weren't for the fact that their top end models both use larger engines (3800 Series 4's, 3.8L DOHC's) and still output less power by a long shot. Also, going back to the sales, the Monte Carlo and Impala have both tanked over the 09 and '10 years with Chevy's marketing of the Malibu being so strong. The 3.8L is a notorious gas hog and negligible power increase over the 3500 3.5L Series 2. What I'm getting at is that the Ford, while being a bigger car, has the same wheelbase as the Malibu (accord nearly spot on), while having nearly the same size of engine against it's competition, the Taurus having a 3.5L, Malibu with a 3.4L and Accord with a 3.4L. The main points being that in wheelbase they are all nearly the same car, and engine sizes being of negligible differences between the three, power and economy being the main differences (Ford with the most power, Honda with the most economy Chevy with the worst of both).
The body may be slightly larger, but the engine size and fuel economy are nearly the same (in fact, ford is better than malibu, but 4mpg short of the accord). To spin it in the favor of your argument, are you not happy that a so-called "Full-size" sedan can compete in terms of mileage with mid-size sedan's, yet whomp the living crap out of all them in power (SHO Only)?
I was supporting your position the whole time.......and no the taurus isn't direct competition, the ford fusion is, and its the recommended buy of the bunch..........the fusion is twice the car of the japanese cars its compared too
You said you sold fords for 5 years and didn't make a mention of mechanical expertise, thus I assumed you were only a lowly salesman! My bad.
But you really should check for yourself. The Taurus IS the direct competition of the accord, regardless of what Ford wants to say. All the big reviewing companies pit it against the malibu, accord, and Altima. That is fact. Ford may call it a full-size sedan, but it is no larger than a mid-size (maybe just a bit, but not much). But that is a null point. As long as all the reviewing organizations consider it mid-size, and pit it against said competition, it is what THEY say it is, regardless of what the mother company classifies it. Also, keep in mind that the malibu is based off of Chevy's Epsilon wheelbase, which is nearly spot on with Taurus' wheelbase.
You've also got to take into consideration that Honda does not have a Full-size car for Ford to compete against. Toyota's full size car (Avalon) cannot compete with any other manufacturers' full-size sedan sales even fractionally as their customer/fan base nearly all opt for Civics and Accords (for those that buy cars). If Ford and Chevy were to pit the Taurus and Malibu or even the Impala/Monte Carlo against the Avalon it would be like beating a dead dog. Competition is more based upon regional sales than it is what the car can do. If that were the case, the Taurus would be direct competition for the Camaro and Challenger (keeping out of mind the mustang).
A true "Full Size" sedan would be something along the lines of my 04 Grand Prix, or say an '03 Monte Carlo, any of those W body cars from Chevy. 04 Grand Prix (Exact same car as mine aside from Rim's, but not mine lol), '10 Taurus (could not find a pic of one beside other cars for reference on size). My uncle owns the taurus and I've parked beside his car and it's smaller compared to mine (not saying mine is better by any long shot), and negligible difference in shoulder room between it and a Fusion (which I almost traded my car in for in '08 but decided not to because of the short headroom). Being inside both a Fusion and a Taurus there is not much difference in space, especially shoulder room. It's the head room and backseats that are the big difference.
The impala and Monte Carlo WOULD be good competition, if it weren't for the fact that their top end models both use larger engines (3800 Series 4's, 3.8L DOHC's) and still output less power by a long shot. Also, going back to the sales, the Monte Carlo and Impala have both tanked over the 09 and '10 years with Chevy's marketing of the Malibu being so strong. The 3.8L is a notorious gas hog and negligible power increase over the 3500 3.5L Series 2. What I'm getting at is that the Ford, while being a bigger car, has the same wheelbase as the Malibu (accord nearly spot on), while having nearly the same size of engine against it's competition, the Taurus having a 3.5L, Malibu with a 3.4L and Accord with a 3.4L. The main points being that in wheelbase they are all nearly the same car, and engine sizes being of negligible differences between the three, power and economy being the main differences (Ford with the most power, Honda with the most economy Chevy with the worst of both).
The body may be slightly larger, but the engine size and fuel economy are nearly the same (in fact, ford is better than malibu, but 4mpg short of the accord). To spin it in the favor of your argument, are you not happy that a so-called "Full-size" sedan can compete in terms of mileage with mid-size sedan's, yet whomp the living crap out of all them in power (SHO Only)?
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8LoBSKMEI8[/video]
LOL was that a g8 behind them?
LOL was that a g8 behind them?